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PVP! Grrr...

E

Exittus

Fairy Princess
Now, I need to state up front - I don't actually LIKE PVP. I hate it. I am bad at it. It creates a horrible player environment and molds 12 year olds to become douchenozzles. I PLAY PVP in MMOs/other multiplayer games because my friends like PVP, and I'd rather be playing with friends than alone.

That being said, I don't have a PROBLEM with PVP. Alot of times, I actually prefer the PVP environment. Not because I want KOS fucktards ruining my game and not because I enjoy mindlessly killing people, but I like it for the excitement of danger. I see another player across the field. I stop for a second. Will I die? Will they kill me? Is this it? It's that little adrenaline rush that is fun.

Now, my play style is to ALWAYS be friendly. I don't want to scare the shit out of people, I want to make my intentions clear. I'll use voice chat (if its available) and let them know I am friendly. I will say hi. If I have stuff to offer, I like to always offer at least SOMETHING as a sign of good faith. I once came across a guy in H1Z1 who was a fresh spawn. I said hey, I'm friendly do you need anything? Berries maybe? (I was a fairly new spawn too without a whole lot). He was like uuuhhh...theres literally like a field of berries behind you so no...I'm good. I said okay and walked away. Sure, it was kinda silly to offer, but it's what I do.

That being said, I get killed ALOT. If someone is trying to PVP me, I don't even engage. I stand still until they kill me and I say thanks, good luck, and respawn. This doesn't demoralize me or anything like that, even if I have a lot of stuff, that's fine. I have a really high tolerance, it takes a lot to really piss me off. Also, this is my playstyle. I know the risks, and I still choose to play the way I do.

Now comes the rant part:

WHAT I FUCKING HATE ABOUT PVP IS THE DUMB SHITS THAT SHIT ON ME FOR MY PLAY STYLE! I hate how all PVP/PVE debates end with PVPers saying "oh you carebears can't handle this shit, just go to a pve only server. Let us play how we want!" Cool, fine, I understand that. BUT WHY CAN'T YOU LET ME PLAY HOW I WANT?!?!

Do you want to know how many times after I've been PVPed to death I hear "you stupid fucking bitch." Or "you bitch." or something to that effect. In H1Z1, in the past 2 - 3 weeks, I lost track at 37. I was counting.

WHY THE FUCK DO YOU THINK THATS OKAY?!?!?! THAT IS BASICALLY SHITTING ON MY PLAYSTYLE. Yes, I don't engage in PVP. No, I don't want to go to a PVE server. I like the danger it brings. Even more, I love being surprised with temporary alliances. Making friends. Actually finding a friendly player in a world where literally everyone can kill you, that's just as much a rush as coming across someone who will backstab me. I ENJOY these moments.

Don't ruin it by then fucking calling me names like noob, whore, bitch, etc. I don't call you names when you go around pissing off everyone and PVPing until you die. Don't call me names for playing how I want to play. I'd rather you be silent then to hear "stupid fucking bitch." If you can role play it a little, even better. "Sorry, you scared the shit out of me." Or "I really just wanted your backpack." Or whatever, that's fine. That's the world. But SERIOUSLY?!?! Calling me names for not playing the way YOU play. FUCK YOU. Fuck you who do that. THAT is what ruins PVP for me. Not the actual killing, but the stupid mentality of "I'm better than you, let me tell you how much of a piece of shit you are for not playing the same way." And this mentality FAR outweighs anything else I have seen so far.

So..that's it really. I just hate what PVP turns immature, insecure players into. It's those personalities that ruin it for me. Not actually dying.

=/
 
Exittus said:
WHAT I FUCKING HATE ABOUT PVP IS THE DUMB SHITS THAT SHIT ON ME FOR MY PLAY STYLE! I hate how all PVP/PVE debates end with PVPers saying "oh you carebears can't handle this shit, just go to a pve only server. Let us play how we want!" Cool, fine, I understand that. BUT WHY CAN'T YOU LET ME PLAY HOW I WANT?!?!
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Hivemind mentality when it comes to pvp is "I kill you, thus I am better than you. Since I am better than you, I can do whatever I want". To an extent, I get an adrenaline rush when I beat another player, because I truly do get an egotistical in the sense of "I am better than you". I always strive for that feeling, and when I lose I get the other piece of frustration of "you killed me, you are better than me, and that infuriates me". It's a drastic swing of emotions. Sometimes, this is carried over from other games or other real life frustrations, causing even bigger emotional swings. Mix that with ignorance, douchenozzle tendencies, and you have outbursts.

It's not about the person attacking you specifically, but a personal coping mechanism. What's that old saying? "Hate only breeds more hate?" Mix in internet anon, and ta-da! That's why. You have a personal that is most likely expressing themselves in the only way they know how, with minimal to zero repercussions. Thus, asshat.
 
I cannot honestly agree with that. It IS about the person, specifically. At this point in the history of gaming, PVP is an entirely established section of gameplay. People who act like this are CHOOSING to play PVP so they can be put in situations where they can shit on other people. It's a completely independent thought. It's a choice. Sure maybe they have shitty lives and this is release, but I cannot believe that its their only coping mechanism. It's the mechanism they have CHOSEN to use.

There are sometimes where it doesn't bother me, like the 11 year old who killed me last night. Okay, fine, you're brain is LITERALLY not mature enough to handle it any other way. Fine. But many, and I mean SOOOO MAAANNNYYY of the experiences I have are with full grown adults. I can hear it in their voice. They have children or a wife in the background. And that's what pisses me off. As an adult, you CHOOSE to be this way. If you don't or cannot, by adulthood, cope - or you aren't mature enough to cope, then that is sad and you are pathetic. And I don't have to kill you in PVP to feel that sweet, sweet joy of being better than you.

So no, I think you are giving them way too much leeway and taking the responsibility off of them. It is their choice, and it is perpetuated by people who make the same choice, and all it does is ruin it for the few who aren't like that.
 
Exittus said:
That being said, I don't have a PROBLEM with PVP. Alot of times, I actually prefer the PVP environment. Not because I want KOS fucktards ruining my game and not because I enjoy mindlessly killing people, but I like it for the excitement of danger. I see another player across the field. I stop for a second. Will I die? Will they kill me? Is this it? It's that little adrenaline rush that is fun.

Now, my play style is to ALWAYS be friendly. I don't want to scare the shit out of people, I want to make my intentions clear. I'll use voice chat (if its available) and let them know I am friendly. I will say hi.
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This is my playstyle, too. in most MMORPGs I prefer PvP servers not because I want to murder people, but because it adds a bit of excitement to the world. I use to get pissed off when I got ganked questing or doing dailies, but then I switched to a PvE server and I was so damn bored.

As ridiculous as this sounds, I also like to help people... friendly or not. Sometimes that just means not killing that one Red player fighting 6 mobs at 10% health, or coming to support a friendly who might have gotten aggro'd by a Red player. I played a mage in my wow vanilla+BC days, and I would often sheep the enemy non-healing classes after their PvE pulls just to heal them (bcuz health regens quickly while poly'd, obv). I find it more rewarding to help a person than to inconvenience them, and that sort of opportunity isn't available on PvE realms.

I do see where Gyoin is coming from. That adrenaline rush is part of the excitement, and I also get it when I help someone because I never know how they are going to respond. I've gotten killed in turn on many occasions.

To rant with you... I haven't experienced your situation in H1Z1, but the namecalling and shittalking against your playstyle are bullshit. It's unfortunately the status quo for internet anonymity, but that I doesn't mean I need to accept it as okay. People need to find less passive-aggressive ways to cope with their issues. I'm often disappointed by the gaming community as a whole (even the "adults"), which is a huge reason why I frequent TAB. You folks just aren't that way. I can't imagine logging into a CoD game with TAB peeps and feeling a need to mute everyone upon lobby entry.
 
Topic said:
That adrenaline rush is part of the excitement, and I also get it when I help someone because I never know how they are going to respond. I've gotten killed in turn on many occasions.
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This is EXACTLY what I am talking about. Thank you! Someone who understands. :)

But yeah, I completely understand there is an adrenaline rush from PVP, especially when you win. Like I said, I'm not against killing or pvp, just the snide remarks that come later. I'm glad to have TAB, because you're right, everyone here is just cut from a different cloth. It's so refreshing. Glad to be able to rant with you!

A little off topic, though. The second frustrating thing about the PVP situation is that I can't ever seem to get hardcore PVPers to understand. Even my friends, who I don't consider douchenozzles, don't GET what I am saying. And every convo devolves into "you just can't handle it, that IS PVP. Go play PVE." It's like no, I like the danger! But whoosh, goes over everyone's head.
 
I can relate to what you are saying to an extent Exittus. I'm friendly by nature and actually leave people alone when I am out in the world. The difference for me is that if someone initiates an attack, I don't back down to a fight :)

But I agree that people can be downright awful with the words they use. This toxicity is the main reason I stopped playing League of Legends in season 2.

Fortunately we have found a safe haven here in TAB


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Wow, haven't seen a good rant here in a while. I applaud you. Your playstyle is very similar to mine except i don't let them kill me. I usually do a quick 180 a high-tail it out of there. I agree and enjoy the danger aspect that it brings. In a PVE setting i would run into a house from the woods without ever considering someone else trying to do the same. In a PVP setting i will take it slower. Stay in the woods for a minute or so and check to see if i see movement or someone coming in or going to the houses.

Now i agree, this mindset that they kill you and call names is just wrong. As Gyoin said, hivemind, i killed you being i am better than you meaning i can do whatever i want. To me, this just makes the game unfun. Why would you call people names after killing them? Is that how you treat people IRL? I bet they wouldn't dare say this IRL. This is the problem with the internet, there is a screen between us and them which gives them a sense of security in letting them get away with saying whatever they want.
 
I wanted to make a montage video of all the times I am called a faggot. How I got raped. And other such shit in h1z1. Not because I relate it to pvp but gaming in general and it is shitty. Feel there needs to be more videos showing the fact that gaming culture still has a long way to go before it can grow into mainstream as fast as it was thrust into it with WoW. That being said I love pvp and the aspects of it. I'm competitive. But also sometimes I get annoyed by it. So I don't mind either. UO was a great game because running was extremely effective haha.
 
Yeah you guys definitely make some good points. There absolutely needs to be some sort of showcase on just how low the gaming community can be at, times. Public shaming can do wonders, in my opinion. Haha

But yeah, it all comes down to the screen of anonymity. And that shit blows.

And I guess while I am on the topic of rants, I might as well include the one thing that many people don't like hearing: I get treated differently because I am a girl.

Sometimes I get people who are in awe of playing with a vocal female. Alot of times it's just whatever. But mostly, I get targeted specifically for being a girl. And that's when the hateful slurs REALLY start to pick up. While I think ALOT of people who are killed in PVP get called names, I feel like as a girl, I hear "bitch," "slut," and "whore," specifically, much more because I am a girl. Like...literally, 9 out of 10 insults include one (or all 3) of those names. They aren't even creative.
 
Exittus said:
And I guess while I am on the topic of rants, I might as well include the one thing that many people don't like hearing: I get treated differently because I am a girl.

Sometimes I get people who are in awe of playing with a vocal female. Alot of times it's just whatever. But mostly, I get targeted specifically for being a girl. And that's when the hateful slurs REALLY start to pick up. While I think ALOT of people who are killed in PVP get called names, I feel like as a girl, I hear "bitch," "slut," and "whore," specifically, much more because I am a girl. Like...literally, 9 out of 10 insults include one (or all 3) of those names. They aren't even creative.
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Yeah, unfortunately I think you have to be ready for both sides of that. There are going to be people who spit on you for being a girl, others who will worship you for that, and everything in between. I've seen it in all the games I have played.

Usually though, I see people make excuses for girls when they aren't playing as good as others. My old FFXIV progression group couldn't progress because we had a girl who wasn't performing. Our raid leader would have replaced any of us if we didn't perform, but she got a free pass for being a girl playing a video game.

I do believe tr1age wrote a really good article about this subject...
 
Baldoraxx said:
Wow, haven't seen a good rant here in a while. I applaud you. Your playstyle is very similar to mine except i don't let them kill me.
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Thank you! Glad to see people actually taking an interest haha.

But yeah, I feel ya. I only let them kill me because I KNOW I am bad at PVP. I just can't do it. My fingers don't work or my mouse sucks or whatever I just can't pull it off. So I don't try, because THEN I get frustrated like...wtf is wrong with me/my gear/my computer whatever. Haha So I don't put myself in a situation to feel like that and just get killed and say "Thanks, good luck out there!' (Also, I think that pisses a lot of people off, too. My little, tiny revenge. Mwahaha)
 
Milleuda said:
Yeah, unfortunately I think you have to be ready for both sides of that. There are going to be people who spit on you for being a girl, others who will worship you for that, and everything in between. I've seen it in all the games I have played.

Usually though, I see people make excuses for girls when they aren't playing as good as others. My old FFXIV progression group couldn't progress because we had a girl who wasn't performing. Our raid leader would have replaced any of us if we didn't perform, but she got a free pass for being a girl playing a video game.

I do believe tr1age wrote a really good article about this subject...
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OMG so much this.

1) Yes, people are afraid to tell girls they are fucking up. It's so annoying. When I play with other girls, they can be as bitchy or shitty as they want, no one fucking says anything. No one says shit even to me, even when I tell them they can/should. But luckily I have Typhor to keep me in line haha.
2) I read Triage's article and friggen loved it. I could relate so much.
3) If we ever do another look at the culture around girl gamers, I would absolutely love to be a part of it/write it. I love that kinda shit (and I'm a pretty good writer, too). So yeah...tristan, lookin at you. :)

Overall, it's a sucky place. I don't want to be put on a pedestal. I don't want to be crapped on. I just want to play, like any other friggen human being.

The first night in H1Z1...I ran across a guy who tried to kill me. When I actually showed some skill and hurt him more than he hurt me, he backed down and said "sorry, the people watching my stream told me to. Now they just want to know if you have boobs." So I told them that was disgusting.

The situation did get a bit better, though. He stopped trying to kill me and told me some jokes instead. Then he kneeled and proposed to me...in game. But that was about the only funny part of the interaction. Bleh.
 
Milleuda said:
There are going to be people who spit on you for being a girl, others who will worship you for that, and everything in between.
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Charter aesthetics are important to me. I generally play MMOs as a female character unless the male characters look badass (eg. Worgen). In my early MMO days (2003-ish) I came across many people that thought female characters were played by women, and I was shocked by the number of people that blatantly said sexual things to me. I even had a staff emoted up my characters' ass while in a Valkurm Dunes party (FFXI). Like, wtf?

On the other hand, we had this girl in our guild/linkshell who (unbeknownst to us for many years) was actually a guy, though he would post pictures on the forum to prove that he was a girl. The amount of help and free gear this "girl" received was astounding. Scorpion harnesses and rare/ex farming help (o. kotes, joyeuse, and HNM black belt items to name a few). //edit// He later admitted that this was he reason why he told everyone he was female. It was very appropriate that his main was Thief.
 
Topic said:
Charter aesthetics are important to me. I generally play MMOs as a female character unless the male characters look badass (eg. Worgen). In my early MMO days (2003-ish) I came across many people that thought female characters were played by women, and I was shocked by the number of people that blatantly said sexual things to me. I even had a staff emoted up my characters' ass while in a Valkurm Dunes party (FFXI). Like, wtf?

On the other hand, we had this girl in our guild/linkshell who (unbeknownst to us for many years) was actually a guy, though he would post pictures on the forum to prove that he was a girl. The amount of help and free gear this "girl" received was astounding. Scorpion harnesses and rare/ex farming help (o. notes, joyeuse, and HNM black belt items to name a few). It was very appropriate that his main was Thief.
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Yeah, it's absolutely absurd. I really, really wish that I could say you had uncommon experiences, but that's just not the case. It's both fortunate and unfortunate that it wasn't until very recently that I became an active (I mean in mumble, voice chat, etc) gamer. Before, it was too scary. I was a girl. I was the minority. I didn't want to stand out, I just wanted to blend in. But at the same time, I didn't have unsavory experiences either. If I was getting targeted or griefed for any reason, it didn't have to do with my gender. I didn't hear lewd or sexual comments often (of course there are always the oddballs that will say it just because my avatar is a female), but definitely not as much as I do now. I hear so much shit, I just can't imagine these people have mothers...or sisters, or grandmothers, or cousins or girlfriends or even just friends that are girls.

And I attribute that to the fact that I am now a VOCAL female player. I don't hide behind the screen anymore. I feel comfortable and I talk and that's that. I do truly feel we have progressed enough that I can be part of the majority and not have to worry about gender hindering anything. But we aren't all there yet, and there is still a LONG way to go.

Here's another encounter I had in H1Z1:

I was playing and ran into a guy who was a new spawn. I said hi and we started playing together, helping each other out. He was foreign (I think he said from Brazil) and could NOT STOP TALKING about how a strong, beautiful woman I was for playing games. And how he never played games with a girl before. And how amazing and good I was and how I need to be protected from the people who were chasing us because I was a girl. Literally, we got shot at with a bow, he took out his fists and ran at the guy saying "YOU DONT SHOOT WOMAN!!" and punched him to death. But then would turn around and just say wow, a girl playing. Wow, you must be so strong and independent. Like...it was surreal. I just kept trying to change the subject. Eventually, I DC'd from an error, and that was that.

But like... there needs to not be such an extreme response. Positive, negative, it doesn't matter. Just...don't bring my gender into it at all. Why? Why is that even a data point you need to consider?
 
Exittus said:
But like... there needs to not be such an extreme response. Positive, negative, it doesn't matter. Just...don't bring my gender into it at all. Why? Why is that even a data point you need to consider?
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Seriously. Morgan Freeman was once asked in an interview how we end racism. I loved his response. "We stop talking about [race]." There are of course cases like Ferguson where it needs to be addressed, but the context of his reply is to just view people by their values, ethics, and morality. In this regard, gender should also be nonissue.
 
Neil Degrasse Tyson on being African-American, or a Woman, in science. He talks about racial and sexual profiling. Maybe what we need to do is make people aware of the fact that girls playing games IS FUCKING NORMAL. IT'S NOT SPECIAL. GET THE FUCK OVER IT.

Anyway, here's the man answering the fucking dumbass question "What's with chicks in science?". Enjoy:
 
Exittus You're not alone. I find MOST things in MMOS to be completely boring unless its done with my friends. It it rubs me raw when people jusge me because I play a game the way I want. Heaven forbid I have fun MY way.
 
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