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An Excellent Video About "That MMO Feeling"

tr1age

tr1age

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Staff member
Skip to 5 Minutes for the meat of it.



He nailed it. Automation. I have said it since day 1, and those who didn't start with WoW probably agree. I miss my UO days where shit was better.
 
Yup. I miss the days of having to actually walk to a dungeon to enter it, having to walk to the pvp entrance to queue for a battleground, corpse runs if you want your gear back, camping rare mob spawns for hours in a highly dangerous place for a chance at that rare drop, working my ASS OFF for raid gear and looking like a badass that people walked up to and oggled, etc., etc., etc...

The thing is, the kiddies are too spoon fed now. If they can't reach max level in two weeks, they rage until the leveling rate is sped up. Boss too hard?.. Nerf the shit out of it the next patch day. If there's an exploit that will powerlevel them or make them rich, they'll abuse the hell out of it instead of reporting it (or report it and still exploit it regardless).

If you don't rush rush rush on release, you get left behind these days, so you get sucked into powerleveling yourself and not taking your time. I miss the days of EQ1 and DAoC.

Gamers today are spoiled little shits, and it pisses me off to no fucking end. No one just wants to enjoy a game any more.

/end rant

p.s. - GET OFF MY YARD, damn whippersnappers.
 
I loved back when I first hopped into WoW and all the way through the end of BC, although not as much as Vanilla.

I loved the feeling of getting into an awesome group (by name) or when you finally get a chance into the baller guild of the server because you PLAYED with them and INTERACTED with them.
 
I think he made a great point though that wow was an enigma in terms of automation and actually is part of the problem.
 
Post-BC wow was part of the problem. Vanilla/BC was decent in terms of fostering community.
 
Nahku said:
Yup. I miss the days of having to actually walk to a dungeon to enter it, having to walk to the pvp entrance to queue for a battleground, corpse runs if you want your gear back, camping rare mob spawns for hours in a highly dangerous place for a chance at that rare drop, working my ASS OFF for raid gear and looking like a badass that people walked up to and oggled, etc., etc., etc...

The thing is, the kiddies are too spoon fed now. If they can't reach max level in two weeks, they rage until the leveling rate is sped up. Boss too hard?.. Nerf the shit out of it the next patch day. If there's an exploit that will powerlevel them or make them rich, they'll abuse the hell out of it instead of reporting it (or report it and still exploit it regardless).

If you don't rush rush rush on release, you get left behind these days, so you get sucked into powerleveling yourself and not taking your time. I miss the days of EQ1 and DAoC.

Gamers today are spoiled little shits, and it pisses me off to no fucking end. No one just wants to enjoy a game any more.

/end rant

p.s. - GET OFF MY YARD, damn whippersnappers.
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You also have this right.

My opinion is simple: Ultima Online is still played for a sub. Simple as that. Why now is it considered a dead game? Cause wow spoiled everyone with millions of people. Problem is 90% of them are not the kind of people who would play eq or UO. So now everyone is looking for those players to make the next big thing but they don't have the ability to. Success needs to be re-assessed.
 
He makes some really good points and it really does boil down to immersion. I played D&D a couple of times when I was younger, but that's not what drew me into EQ. I've always been a video gamer and EQ was something new and incredibly innovative. The thought of playing in a persistent world with other players from across the globe blew me away. Before MMO's came about, Zelda was about as close as you could get to that experience.

Fast forward a few years and most of those players have seen it, done it, and are looking for something new and exciting. In comes WoW. I think the reason this game was so popular is because it brought in a whole new segment of gamers. Millions of players busted their MMO cherry with WoW and because of that it garnered the loyal following that EQ did. Incidentally, that's also the reason there's no such thing as a WoW-killer. Just as EQ is still around, so will WoW be around. The only thing that kills WoW is Blizzard taking it down. Anyhow, back on topic...

Now fast-forward again and tens of millions of people have played MMO's for quite some time. They've seen it all, done it all, and are clamoring for something new and original, not the same old thing rehashed in a shiny, new universe. This is also my main concern for Wildstar. Every system I've seen so far has been done in other MMO's at one point in time or another - even Warplots (anyone remember Shadowbane?). It's all standard MMORPG fare - and the implementation of those things has become boring. Many games have become so kid-friendly now that some games will actually light the path you need to take to get to your quest area, then either light up the region on a map where the objectives can be found or actually mark on the map exactly where an object can be found. Where's the fun in that? Sure it's easy, but if every quest is like that then all it does is put players on auto-pilot. We never really see or get involved with the game. At that point the game becomes objecitve-based which is basically a carrot on a treadmill.

Games shouldn't hold a player's hand.
 
I hate to admit it, but this guy is right. The most fun I've ever had gaming is playing achaea, even though the company and community are both shit. I loved the way the MUD played out as far as immersion and combat and even though you could have some "portal" like skills, you still had to walk, or sail, or fly a LOT. I miss that kind of experience. Which is why Achaea players say you can never escape Achaea. (I resist the temptation to go back all the time)
 
This is part of something I don't get. If people want immersion so bad, why isn't everyone on an RP server? Get into RP enough and you can play a game without ever actually playing the game, if you know what I mean. Maybe people say immersion when they mean to say "forced social interaction". Which is not the same thing to me.

While automation is sometimes a problem, I don't mind it very much. Even playing D&D and LARPing, no one says, okay, we're gonna actually wait the two hours it takes to walk back to town because that's realistic. Pfft, screw that. It doesn't affect the story and no one wants to sit there doing nothing. Teleporting to a dungeon once you've formed a group is fine by me. It's not like it's realistic to be doing the same dungeon for the 30th time, so why do we care about the realism in walking to the dungeon? I imagine it's because people enjoy talking to players who are also standing around outside the dungeon and getting ganked by (or ganking) the opposing side (both arguably enjoyable activities).

As far as the random grouping: I'm horrible about talking to people and spamming for a group bugs me to no end (I guess in a true RP setting it could be slightly entertaining to see how many variations of "Seeking four brave adventurers to join me in my quest to vanquish the evil in the dungeons below the city" you get). I dunno. I understand both sides of that argument.

The other thing that amuses me, as a side note. So many people are opposed to automation. It's still possible in almost every MMO to skip that automation step, but I've yet to see anyone say, let's just walk to the dungeon even though we could teleport there. People seem to always take the easiest route, even if they don't want to. Exceptions have been noted on RP servers.

His third point, exclusivity, is the big one for me. That's what makes my character feel epic and makes me feel like something's worth working for. Yeah, that's right. I got this mount that only drops 1% of the time off the hardest boss in the game that you've never even manged to defeat. Suck it.
 
I liked UO's recall runes. You could get to anywhere as long as you had been there before or someone else. Mark and Recall. And Gate for multiple people.
 
Hyomicca said:
That still doesn't explain to me what immersion is. It's feeling like you're a part of this fantasy world that's been created, right? If that's so, then RP is very much immersion.
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I think most of the problem is people want specific trypes of rp. An example is people standing in line at a bank in a game... would I want to do that? Hell no. People would flame me for it on the server though because it ruins their immersion. But do I walk most places when I'm questing? Yes, because I like the immersion of having to explore instead of just using a fast travel. Not saying I don't ever use fast travels, I just like to look around and enjoy the scenery. It just depends on how deep you're willing to go.
 
Hyomicca said:
That still doesn't explain to me what immersion is. It's feeling like you're a part of this fantasy world that's been created, right? If that's so, then RP is very much immersion.
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I disagree in the sense that too much of RP is taken out of game and building characters that have nothing to do with in game stuff. So much paper work and paragraphs and sitting and RP'ing versus using your environment to RP, your skills and world presented to you, and less sitting in bars staring at text.

RP in UO was a lot of fun, because we would make player events and there was enough in place to make it happen, housing in Wildstar will help here.
 
tr1age said:
I disagree in the sense that too much of RP is taken out of game and building characters that have nothing to do with in game stuff. So much paper work and paragraphs and sitting and RP'ing versus using your environment to RP, your skills and world presented to you, and less sitting in bars staring at text.

RP in UO was a lot of fun, because we would make player events and there was enough in place to make it happen, housing in Wildstar will help here.
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Yeah, people can be a bit crazy in their demand of immersion, but that's to the point of silliness. I think I'd prefer a happy medium. A character with a personality instead of "Nameless Savior of the World #1542". I do think just standing around talking the entire time is a bit silly. Go use those skills you have.
 
I like RP servers because of the random RP going on around town that is usually interesting and adds to the feel of the place (immersion). GW2 sort of put "automated RP" in with their random conversations between NPCs. It was cool and all, but didn't hit the same marks that random players RPing does. I hardly ever RP, but I respect the those that do and enjoy being around them, I'm just quiet. ;)
 
I agree with everything he talks about.

I miss the days back in WoW vanilla and BC where you actually had to find a group to run a dungeon with and actually make friends with decent people. People you would group with over and over, Possibly end up making a guild with, or joining a guild with, then meeting new people and raiding with that guild.

Hopefully you guys and wildstar can bring back those early vanilla and BC feelings from WoW.
 
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