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kbambz said:
...sigh...

That's like me saying all MMOs are the same. Don't be bitter just because you never got that puppy statue. :p

I completely agree those timed events can be rough, however. But it's not too far a deviation from buying gems to buy boosts to (yada yada yada) help you in achieving a holiday achievement in GW2. Some games are just better at masking it with indirection than others.

And you definitely spammed my Facebook news feed with more than three SimsSocial posts, just sayin'. <3
Click to expand...

See I disagree. All the games are the same, obtain X to get Y, rinse repeat. The difference is, you are top down looking at mediocre graphics and a non interactive community building environment. These games remind me of an advanced version of games my mother would play back when. A glorified crossword puzzle, without needing to use your brain as much.

Sure this may follow suit with the MMOs we play etc, but you get interaction and a feeling of self worth in MMOs in these you constantly have a "Keeping up with the Jones's" feel to it. Looking at your neighboring plots and saying damn I want more shit to look awesome. Then eventually you get tired of the load times and the latency caused by Flash, and decide no more.

Then you realize you are poor from spending a virtual cash that amounted to a virtual item which actually turned out to be a lot of money.

I am not arguing the success of these games, like I would not argue casinos. But they are all the same pull the slot machine lever to get addicted for the rush even if the payout is small, it makes a lot of flashing sounds and makes you want to do more.

I loved the Sim Social and Farmville. But god it is a lonely expensive waste of time and money if you so choose.
 
Going to be completely transparent here. I don't spend my free time playing Facebook platform games. I did once, just as you did, although it would appear my departure entailed far less animosity than yours. It's not to say I haven't played them, just that I'm not sure the role they'd have in my life outside what is now my work, associated research, and direct support of my friends who develop them (although who the hell knows, maybe I'd play more under different circumstances).

I've never said "social games are amazing," but I take issue with blatant, holier-than-thou statements of what is or is not a game and what is or is not a waste of people's time or money. Honestly, there's nothing you've stated that couldn't be repurposed verbatum with the same level of legitimacy about any other PC, MMO, or console game.
tr1age said:
Then you realize you are poor from spending a virtual cash that amounted to a virtual item which actually turned out to be a lot of money.
Click to expand...
...in particular. This is different than GW2 how? Or are you in actuality ranting about the entire online free-to-play model? Because that's a very different discussion we can have.

tr1age said:
See I disagree. All the games are the same, obtain X to get Y, rinse repeat.
Click to expand...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory#Representation_of_games Sorry, but seriously? First off, if it's that simple, why the hell haven't you spun off ten of them yet? Second of all, if we're talking casual games, they're supposed to be that simple; that's kind of the point. In fact, this is a simple axiom I'd argue a lot of attempted games actually fail to accomplish. Online gaming at its core? Have a third party define a goal for you of subjectively-perceived value, then provide a way clear way to progress to achieve it. This is not rocket science, this is intro level human psychology, and it's a core tenet of gaming. It's enabling people to fulfill the basic need for external control and self-value in a sandbox made of pixels.
tr1age said:
The difference is, you are top down looking at mediocre graphics and a non interactive community building environment. These games remind me of an advanced version of games my mother would play back when. A glorified crossword puzzle, without needing to use your brain as much.
Click to expand...
These are subjective statements. Mindcraft doesn't have particularly stunning graphics, yet it's still wildly popular, successfully, and respected across the industry. For a Flash game, I gotta say Farm2 is stunning, but I don't think that's the make-or-break point for why that game is a success. I also can't believe you just hated on crossword puzzles...

There's a not uncommon undertone in your argument that perplexes me. No one ever forced you or anyone else to play a game--casual, Facebook, or otherwise--and certainly not to pay against your conscious will. To my knowledge, there are no documented reports of a slot machine ever mind controlling anyone.

I'm completely fine if you have an issue with the industry. I've heard numerous legitimate criticisms about it, many of which I whole heartedly agree with, and to which I can add a few of my own; however, I'm having trouble identifying substance in your stated complaints.

I know this might sound insane at first, but what I think most people fail to realize is that there are a lot of people who feel about FarmVille the exact same way that you, Tristan, feel about UltimaOnline, or how I once felt about pre-Wrath WoW. It didn't mean our parents or friends or significant others thought we were making worthwhile investments of time or money, but the experiences in those games meant the world to us because of what we chose to invest, and what they were able to give back to us as a result of the meaning we first gave to them. In that same light, if that genre isn't your style, simply say so; because that's fine. (Hell, my own mother can't stand Facebook games.)

(Oh, and if you aren't already familiar with Cow Clicker (article) or Progress Quest, I think you'll find both very relevant-- and rather fascinatingly epic.)
 
How did this turn into a debate?

I just want all your mobile gaming secrets. muahahahahahahahaaa *cough* *cough* hahahahah
 
kbambz said:
Going to be completely transparent here. I don't spend my free time playing Facebook platform games. I did once, just as you did, although it would appear my departure entailed far less animosity than yours. It's not to say I haven't played them, just that I'm not sure the role they'd have in my life outside what is now my work, associated research, and direct support of my friends who develop them (although who the hell knows, maybe I'd play more under different circumstances).

I've never said "social games are amazing," but I take issue with blatant, holier-than-thou statements of what is or is not a game and what is or is not a waste of people's time or money. Honestly, there's nothing you've stated that couldn't be repurposed verbatum with the same level of legitimacy about any other PC, MMO, or console game.

...in particular. This is different than GW2 how? Or are you in actuality ranting about the entire online free-to-play model? Because that's a very different discussion we can have.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory#Representation_of_games Sorry, but seriously? First off, if it's that simple, why the hell haven't you spun off ten of them yet? Second of all, if we're talking casual games, they're supposed to be that simple; that's kind of the point. In fact, this is a simple axiom I'd argue a lot of attempted games actually fail to accomplish. Online gaming at its core? Have a third party define a goal for you of subjectively-perceived value, then provide a way clear way to progress to achieve it. This is not rocket science, this is intro level human psychology, and it's a core tenet of gaming. It's enabling people to fulfill the basic need for external control and self-value in a sandbox made of pixels.

These are subjective statements. Mindcraft doesn't have particularly stunning graphics, yet it's still wildly popular, successfully, and respected across the industry. For a Flash game, I gotta say Farm2 is stunning, but I don't think that's the make-or-break point for why that game is a success. I also can't believe you just hated on crossword puzzles...

There's a not uncommon undertone in your argument that perplexes me. No one ever forced you or anyone else to play a game--casual, Facebook, or otherwise--and certainly not to pay against your conscious will. To my knowledge, there are no documented reports of a slot machine ever mind controlling anyone.

I'm completely fine if you have an issue with the industry. I've heard numerous legitimate criticisms about it, many of which I whole heartedly agree with, and to which I can add a few of my own; however, I'm having trouble identifying substance in your stated complaints.

I know this might sound insane at first, but what I think most people fail to realize is that there are a lot of people who feel about FarmVille the exact same way that you, Tristan, feel about UltimaOnline, or how I once felt about pre-Wrath WoW. It didn't mean our parents or friends or significant others thought we were making worthwhile investments of time or money, but the experiences in those games meant the world to us because of what we chose to invest, and what they were able to give back to us as a result of the meaning we first gave to them. In that same light, if that genre isn't your style, simply say so; because that's fine. (Hell, my own mother can't stand Facebook games.)

(Oh, and if you aren't already familiar with Cow Clicker (article) or Progress Quest, I think you'll find both very relevant-- and rather fascinatingly epic.)
Click to expand...

I repeat. All facebook games coming out of Zynga or other firms like EA's sim social are the same. This is not "animosity" this is a simple truth. There is really no argument here. I don't care if you are picking up two gems instead of 1, if the gem is purple instead of yellow, if the graphics are up or down. The main idea behind a facebook game is as simple as a casino. You go in. Shiny stuff flashes. If you don't have enough money, you cannot continue playing until you A either come back the next day for your free tickets to the show granted each day, or B make more money to spend.

This addictive type of "keeping up with the Jones's" experience has existed for years. Facebook games have learned how to capitilize on it. Why haven't I made 10 of them? That is simple too, I never claimed to know the inner workings or work that goes in behind these things, HOWEVER one can make a face assessment of how these games work when all of these games are a rehash of the last. Have energy, run out of energy, wait an hour, come back, have energy, run out of energy, spam your friends for more energy, rinse repeat. Or you pay to win. The end.

I don't think ANYONE here would disagree that that is EXACTLY what games like Farmville, The Sims Social, Fish Town, are all about.

They are glorified versions of Popgames. Zynga is an advanced popgames. It makes pulling the slot machines handle just a littttle bit more exciting. Just like Quibids (apologies for anyones life I just ruined) found a way to turn auctions into a serious profit. Essentially making penny slots online and with a prettier easier accessible and consciously shiny prize at the end.

As well an MMO and a Facebook game can NEVER be compared EVER. Why? Simplicity and Pay to Win model. They are two very different approaches to games. Sure some MMOS are pay to win but I am talking about the big hitters since Zynga and the like are considered the big hitters in their class.

Facebook games follow a formula for what causes the player to spend money.

MMO's may have this as an option but for instance WoW was a subscription not a micro-transaction game for 5 years and did fine. You knew what you paid for instead of seeing something new each week that you may or may not want to "skip ahead" with cash to obtain faster.

Come on we all know someone who plays Zynga games religiously. We have seen everyone hop on and then go WTF AM I DOING and hop off. Like the sims social and farmville for me. Fuck I had macros to harvest my crops. Then I was like... WTF AM I DOING.

My issue with these games comes down to a society level. What makes us so inclined to play games that offer very little substance but are out to mind fuck us into opening our wallets at any point?

I think your argument has fueled my argument beyond what was originally intended here. Like I said I enjoyed the games while they lasted in my brief addiction but when you pull back you still recognize the cocaine as a drug. And regardless of how it made you feel, it is still not good for you or anyone around you. And since we are doing the compare to An MMO thing, this is where and MMO like Ultima Online did when I was young, can build you friendships, teach you social interactions, economy, and other helpful things in life. Shit that is why I was allowed to play these games as a child, because little did I know I was learning shit and having fun doing it. Was there that same level of addiction, hell yes if not more, but at least the game wasn't pretending to be my friend.

Both your cited links as well are right along the lines of what I am saying. It is the human psyche. Scary really. But also really interesting and what separates us from other creatures in this world. The cow clicker killed me awhile ago, but it makes so much sense. And yes people want to be something they are not, level up in a world they don't live, shit watch Darkon. I doubt I would call the articles epic however, mostly because that word could put me on a whole other rant, but more importantly because these types of social interactions and behaviors have been talked about time and time again through my years in newspapers, blogs, articles, etc. When people figure it out, they, like me, want to yell and scream about it, because instead of having a revelation, you realize the girl you dated for so many years was cheating on you and you realize you can never love her again, no matter what.


EDIT: Wanted to also add, I do not think the work involved in making said games is any less than that of an MMO, if anything sometimes it is harder due to the nature of micro-transactions as a baseline. So as far as effort involved and work invested, there is no one in their right mind that would knock it. Just like I wouldn't hit ArcheAge with a slap on the wrist for their efforts even if I do not enjoy the game. It still takes smart minds working together.
 
Might have to break some of this off into the rants section soon haha. :) Good timez!
 
I like debates. I don't like Facebook. Hence, my lack of exposure and familiarity with said games. However I have an addictive personality so I'm sure I would enjoy them for endless hours I do not have were I to participate in social media gaming more. As it is now, there isn't enough time for me to play all of the games I want to play and do not know about. RANT ON!
 
These games have such a short lifespan for me. I play them for a while...usually pretty regularly, and they are really fun, but then I either get capped, to the point that I have to spend real cash to "keep up", have so many game request that I just get overwhelmed (Words with friends, draw something, ect) or I complete them and I'm waiting on new levels to come out, or just plain ole get bored with them.
 
Oh and my favorite mobile game right now is... *drum roll* Bubble Blast 2. Damn this game is addicting
 
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