GW2 Necro's After BWE3

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

On the beta forums, one of the main developers said the three classes they are least happy with are Mesmer, Necro, and Thief and that they will get a lot of attention between now and launch.

Apparently, the big problem with the necros is that they got nerfed extremely hard for this beta which resulted in all but two builds being completely worthless (Condition and Power), while all Support and Tank oriented builds were destroyed with the overnerfs to Deathshroud and Wells.

A bigger problem apparently was that Necro's were not desired in Spvp tournament play unless they were paired with a Mesmer (for Time Warp) and were spec'd max power/crit/crit damage to utilize Lich Form. The main problem with most Condition builds is that they are massively bleed oriented and for whatever reason, bleed is always the first condition removed by condition removal abilities. And with most classes having a condition removal on their heals, along with many other abilities to remove conditions, a bleed based condition-mancer is of limited use in a structured match with experienced players. And until the damage on poison starts to become more in-line with burning, that's of limited use as well, but at least isn't removed immediately.

From the Dev comments, the goal appears to be to make the other Necro specs viable to play again (Support, Tank) while getting Minion and Life Steal builds simply viable overall.


Now, for PvE and WvWvW, these concerns aren't nearly as pressing. Minion Master works incredibly well for PvE, and while the tank (Deathshroud focused builds) can be difficult, it's still functional with at least one pet to take some damage. And, of course, these were only tested up to ~30ish last build. I, personally, only got to 22 and I ran a tank-type build that I was mostly happy with in PvE. I used the Norn racial pet worm to tank extensively though on any harder fight. Loved that. The true test for PvE builds will be in dungeons on explorable mode, and we don't have that data yet. And in WvWvW, which I spent a solid 24 hours doing at least, I had a blast with the Necro, though it absolutely sucks running around until you unlock Spectral Walk for the 30 seconds of Swiftness. Also, Spectral Grasp for snatching people off the walls of keeps to the ground outside is priceless. Easily the most fun I had in the game. I could do that all day. With the dynamics of fights and the abilities needed changing on circumstance (sieging/assaulting/etc...), along with a great many of the best Necro utility skills being in tier 3, I plan on really focusing on porting around doing skill challenges and getting to level 20ish asap so I can be effective in WvWvW at launch.

Anyway, I just wanted to throw in the heads up from the AN Devs that Necro's are going to get heavy attention prior to launch, as well as mention a few of my personal thoughts from this beta weekend. Any other thoughts/opinions are definitely welcome as well.

 

[Catalyst]

I'm gonna steal this quote from the official forums I found on GW2 Guru:

"We haven’t. It is our current opinion that Necro is one of the two professions that need to most love right now. Everyone will get some help, but as I told many players in game, Necro needs more than most. That does not mean there are no strong Necro builds, but necro just needs more viable builds and more good traits."

Sounds cool to me. I didn't do any tournaments, but I did find my Mark-focused build very fun in sPvP and very effective. I equate it to being a support character, kind of like a healer would be in other MMOs. I stand just outside of the action with my staff and weaken the hell out of my enemies so they are much easier to kill for the rest of my team. And when the enemy was dumb enough to focus me, I turned on Plague and AOE bled the hell out of them while the rest of my team was free to wail on them. I'm not sure how effective this would be in tournaments with more organized groups, but it worked really well in PvP and was easily the most fun I had in PvP. It's probably not for everyone as you can't really do too much damage on your own, it is very much a support build.

I can see what they're saying though, I couldn't imagine playing a necro any other way since the other weapon sets felt weak in PvP. It's good to hear they're going to be taking a closer look at us, having more builds and weapon sets to play around with would be awesome. Can't wait to see what they do.

 

[Catalyst]

Minion Master works incredibly well for PvE, and while the tank (Deathshroud focused builds) can be difficult, it's still functional with at least one pet to take some damage. .

How did you find the minion AI? I only got up to level 8 in PvE since I spent a lot of time trying other classes out. But my bone minion just kept running into the enemies and getting 2 shotted. It's a ranged minion so it has no reason to be doing this. I quickly switched to a well after dealing with that for a while. Maybe I should have picked the melee minions first?

 

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

How did you find the minion AI? I only got up to level 8 in PvE since I spent a lot of time trying other classes out. But my bone minion just kept running into the enemies and getting 2 shotted. It's a ranged minion so it has no reason to be doing this. I quickly switched to a well after dealing with that for a while. Maybe I should have picked the melee minions first?

The pet AI still seems like it needs a lot of work as well as the pets in general. The bone minions and bone fiend were absolutely worthless for me for the same reasons you stated. I can see how they can be spec'd to be useful with traits, but I didn't get high enough to tinker with that. I was pretty happy with the shadow fiend but you could just port him to the mob. His survivability was average, much like the blood fiend. In early game, they tanked well enough to solo harder fights at least. I pretty much settled on using the Norn racial pet worm, which tanked quite well, for all event bosses and such. It was an instant aggro magnet and would buy time to heal up and rez others. It was only after the beta I realized this was not a necro pet, but a norn ability, but I have to imagine the necro flesh worm should work equally as well. However, with the worms, you just put them down and let them do their thing, not much AI involved. I used the Flesh Golem elite skill in spvp a bit, and that seemed to work as intended. I'd send him into charge after someone, and he'd do a decent job of chasing them around corners and such.

But yeah, the Bone Fiend AI is borked and it's pretty much worthless. The Minions look completely worthless as well until you can trait into blowing them up and poisoning nearby mobs. The Shadow Fiend is easily the only somewhat useful early utility pet.

But the most annoying thing, BY FAR, for all necro pets is that they don't regen after fights. I'd have to dismiss and resummon almost every time. That definitely can't be working as intended.

 

[Catalyst]

But yeah, the Bone Fiend AI is borked and it's pretty much worthless. The Minions look completely worthless as well until you can trait into blowing them up and poisoning nearby mobs. The Shadow Fiend is easily the only somewhat useful early utility pet.

But the most annoying thing, BY FAR, for all necro pets is that they don't regen after fights. I'd have to dismiss and resummon almost every time. That definitely can't be working as intended.

Didn't even notice them not regenerating. You're right, that needs to be fixed for sure even if it is intended. Pet AI is always the reason why I tend to avoid pet classes/builds. Depending on unreliable AI to do reliable damage or whatever else never feels good to me. Hopefully they fix the pets that need work to make them more viable.

I was running with staff and axe/dagger in PvE which felt pretty good for the time I spent with it.

 

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

Didn't even notice them not regenerating. You're right, that needs to be fixed for sure even if it is intended. Pet AI is always the reason why I tend to avoid pet classes/builds. Depending on unreliable AI to do reliable damage or whatever else never feels good to me. Hopefully they fix the pets that need work to make them more viable.

I was running with staff and axe/dagger in PvE which felt pretty good for the time I spent with it.

I spent time with all the weapons and they all seemed relatively fine for the earlier levels, but I definitely stuck with axe as my primary damage dealer. I usually ran with axe/focus and scepter/warhorn, but that was mostly for the run speed buffs I could flip between, at least until I unlocked Spectral Walk. Once I got to a static area for a tough event chain or whatever, I went axe/focus for kiting and swapped in staff.

I felt pretty good about the weapons, though the nerf of several bleeds off the scepter was noticeable at the early levels. There are a few builds I really want to play in PvE centering around bleeds and turtleing up in deathshroud, but based on this recent beta, I think I'll focus on leveling up mostly with power/direct damage via axe with a pet or two to tank.

 

[Catalyst]

I spent time with all the weapons and they all seemed relatively fine for the earlier levels, but I definitely stuck with axe as my primary damage dealer. I usually ran with axe/focus and scepter/warhorn, but that was mostly for the run speed buffs I could flip between, at least until I unlocked Spectral Walk. Once I got to a static area for a tough event chain or whatever, I went axe/focus for kiting and swapped in staff.

I felt pretty good about the weapons, though the nerf of several bleeds off the scepter was noticeable at the early levels. There are a few builds I really want to play in PvE centering around bleeds and turtleing up in deathshroud, but based on this recent beta, I think I'll focus on leveling up mostly with power/direct damage via axe with a pet or two to tank.

Yes, the axe felt like the most powerful weapon as far as damage goes. Kind of hope they buff some weapons, because it definitely feels like there are one or two weapon sets that stand out and not just on the necro. But they probably aren't worried about doing that before release. Your idea for leveling up sounds like the best one right now. Maybe their changes will change that. Can't wait to check it out.

 

[PsionicFox]

As far as the pets go, that's standard for GW necro minions. In GW1, they constantly lost health. Nevermind it not regenerating. So it makes sense to me. But with a decreased focus on healing in this game, maybe the minions SHOULD have regenerating health...

 

[Mat'hir Uth Gan]

As far as the pets go, that's standard for GW necro minions. In GW1, they constantly lost health. Nevermind it not regenerating. So it makes sense to me. But with a decreased focus on healing in this game, maybe the minions SHOULD have regenerating health...

I believe the ranger pets regen health or are healable. I really hope they change it, at least for out of combat. It just forces you to dismiss your pet, wait 30 seconds or whatever, resummon, and pull another group of mobs. It's painful if soloing relatively difficult areas.

 

[Catalyst]

Ah, I remember the pet health from GW1 now. I played a necro in GW1, but that was a long time ago and I focused more on Blood magic. But like Mat'hir said it's no fun for PvE. The pet AI is not that great and the survivability of the early ones even worse. Waiting 30 seconds to call in minions after every fight or two because they don't regen can be annoying especially if your build is focused on that.

It's like eating/drinking after fights in WoW. It's a pointless mechanic made to suck more time out of you, so you can't get things done too quickly. It's a mechanic added to subscription based MMOs for that very reason. GW2 isn't that, so there's no reason to not let us get right back in the action. Although I understand having a cooldown, so you can't just keep spawning in minions endlessly.

As a side note, I played a ranger for a bit and my pet did die a lot and until you get a second pet to swap you had to revive it like you would another player.

 

[Observer Z]

Didn't see too many necros in spvp and of the ones I saw, they were pretty much a non-issue just like mesmers. Hopefully come release they'll be worth taking again since I really liked the necro and it's play style.