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[Sep 23, 2013] Pathfinder - Big Baby Down! Outsider Prisoner? (Roll20.net / Mumble)

ToxicAsF

Over Analystical Extreme Gambler
Alright, so last session we took down the big creepy baby, sold the mask off (I KEPT THE GLORIOUS ROBES!), and now we're back in town. This is the time to do your shopping folks and rest up! Use these forums to interact with Red Omen about shopkeepers! And, permitted by Red, haggle? (please?)

We'll continue on our journey next week!

Level up to 4 prior to the session is possible.

Red Omen
dainjre
Evilcat
sweetloaf
ThatOneGuy
Mr.Boston
Gyoin
 
Do I? No, not really... which is why I need the 200 extra gold, so I can buy a magical item!
 
Do I? No, not really... which is why I need the 200 extra gold, so I can buy a magical item!
Well, remember, I do have Craft Wondrous Item.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magicItems/wondrousItems.html

I can make items as long as I have the pre-reqs to make it (for half base price). Depending on the item, it might be cheaper to buy a scroll with the spell, let me learn the spell then make the item than buy the item flat out (plus I get the spell forever!)

I'll make anything for cost + scroll, or cost + negotiable fee >_>
 
Well, remember, I do have Craft Wondrous Item.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magicItems/wondrousItems.html

I can make items as long as I have the pre-reqs to make it (for half base price). Depending on the item, it might be cheaper to buy a scroll with the spell, let me learn the spell then make the item than buy the item flat out (plus I get the spell forever!)

I'll make anything for cost + scroll, or cost + negotiable fee >_>

You've got a few levels before you're able to cast the spell, unfortunately.
 
Actually, Red Omen , question.

On that page I listed earlier, I see "CL 8th" for all of the stat headbands/belts. Does that mean Caster Level?

Also, I found where I may have been misinterpreting something. On every "stat enhance item", I see "Treat this as a temporary ability bonus for the first 24 hours the headband is worn." I thought this might mean it becomes a perma increase after 24 hours, thus granting leveling bonuses.

For instance -

Headband of Vast Intelligence - This intricate gold headband is decorated with several small blue and deep purple gemstones. The headband grants the wearer an enhancement bonus to Intelligence of +2, +4, or +6. Treat this as a temporary ability bonus for the first 24 hours the headband is worn. A headband of vast intelligence has one skill associated with it per +2 bonus it grants. After being worn for 24 hours, the headband grants a number of skill ranks in those skills equal to the wearer's total Hit Dice. These ranks do not stack with the ranks a creature already possesses. These skills are chosen when the headband is created. If no skill is listed, the headband is assumed to grant skill ranks in randomly determined Knowledge skills.

This gave me the illusion that stat items gave perma bonuses after 24 hours. DM ruling?
 
You got an extra thousand gold for the mask, so I figure that's plenty in your favor. Further haggling would require too much bookkeeping.

CL means Caster Level. So yes, you're too low for now.

Here are some people talking about the permanent stat bonus thing. It looks like what you're describing.
 
Yes, but at this stage it's impossible to afford it. The item must be enchanted with at least a +1 bonus (+2,000g) before it can receive a +1-equivalent special ability like flaming (+6,000g on top of that).
 
You got an extra thousand gold for the mask, so I figure that's plenty in your favor. Further haggling would require too much bookkeeping.

CL means Caster Level. So yes, you're too low for now.

Here are some people talking about the permanent stat bonus thing. It looks like what you're describing.

Just something I found real quick.

Magic Item Creation

To create magic items, spellcasters use special feats which allow them to invest time and money in an item's creation. At the end of this process, the spellcaster must make a single skill check (usually Spellcraft, but sometimes another skill) to finish the item. If an item type has multiple possible skills, you choose which skill to make the check with. The DC to create a magic item is 5 + the caster level for the item. Failing this check means that the item does not function and the materials and time are wasted. Failing this check by 5 or more results in a cursed item.

Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by 5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting its prerequisites.

While item creation costs are handled in detail below, note that normally the two primary factors are the caster level of the creator and the level of the spell or spells put into the item. A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell. Using metamagic feats, a caster can place spells in items at a higher level than normal.
Magic supplies for items are always half of the base price in gp. For many items, the market price equals the base price. Armor, shields, weapons, and items with value independent of their magically enhanced properties add their item cost to the market price. The item cost does not influence the base price (which determines the cost of magic supplies), but it does increase the final market price.

In addition, some items cast or replicate spells with costly material components. For these items, the market price equals the base price plus an extra price for the spell component costs. The cost to create these items is the magic supplies cost plus the costs for the components. Descriptions of these items include an entry that gives the total cost of creating the item.

The creator also needs a fairly quiet, comfortable, and well-lit place in which to work. Any place suitable for preparing spells is suitable for making items. Creating an item requires 8 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof), with a minimum of at least 8 hours. Potions and scrolls are an exception to this rule; they can take as little as 2 hours to create (if their base price is 250 gp or less). Scrolls and potions whose base price is more than 250 gp, but less than 1,000 gp, take 8 hours to create, just like any other magic item. The character must spend the gold at the beginning of the construction process. Regardless of the time needed for construction, a caster can create no more than one magic item per day. This process can be accelerated to 4 hours of work per 1,000 gp in the item's base price (or fraction thereof) by increasing the DC to create the item by 5.

The caster can work for up to 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by working longer each day, but the days need not be consecutive, and the caster can use the rest of his time as he sees fit. If the caster is out adventuring, he can devote 4 hours each day to item creation, although he nets only 2 hours' worth of work. This time is not spent in one continuous period, but rather during lunch, morning preparation, and during watches at night. If time is dedicated to creation, it must be spent in uninterrupted 4-hour blocks. This work is generally done in a controlled environment, where distractions are at a minimum, such as a laboratory or shrine. Work that is performed in a distracting or dangerous environment nets only half the amount of progress (just as with the adventuring caster).

A character can work on only one item at a time. If a character starts work on a new item, all materials used on the under-construction item are wasted.

So with that information, does it mean crafting the headband would actually be a DC of 13 (CL8+5) from a spellcraft check? (Which, btw, I would have 14 ranks of after leveling to 4)

Also, another thing I noticed in the Spoiler section - "The DC to create a magic item increases by 5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet."

Does that mean I could actually make say, gloves of dex without cat's grace, but it's DC would be 18 (CL8+5+5)?
 
Oh yeah, actually. Didn't realize that not meeting prereqs just increased the DC. For you, since you don't have the proper caster level, the Spellcraft DC is 18 (CL8 + 5 + another 5 for not being level 8).

Magic item creation was made much simpler in Pathfinder. It's kind of hard to fail, actually.
 
Ahh, ok, now I get it. CL is still a pre-requisite, as well as the base DC. Got it.

That means for those who might be interested in me making something, there IS actually a risk involved and I may fail (with a bad dice roll) for these stat enhancement items.

IE - Spell craft of 14 vs DC of 18, I'd need to roll a 4 or higher on each craft to match the DC.

At least, that is until I make my headband first, increase my int, then Spellcraft will have a base 15 due to +1 int modifier increase! >_>

Hey, who wants to hang out in town for a week!

Edit - Red Omen - are you sure the CL is actually a pre-requisite? I'm fine with whatever decision you make, just reading around a bit more and it seems the DC is just CL+5 (and then +5 for say, not knowing the spell directly).

The description here this guy posted explained it very simply (mostly because sometimes I need to be treated like a 5 year old) http://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_...plain_it_to_me_like_im_5_craft_wondrous_item/

2nd Edit: GM rules on "Taking 10"? :)
 
The DC is increased by 5 for each prerequisite that isn't met. You could conceivably make the item knowing absolutely nothing; this means the DC is 8 (caster level) + 5 (standard) + 5 (not meeting caster level) + 5n (where n is the number of spells required to make it that you don't know). So if you felt up to it, you could have tried for that DC 23+ Spellcraft check and gambled a few thousand gold in the process. Apparently you have to know the relevant Craft feat, and you can't raise the DC to compensate.
 
Ahh, ok, now I get it. CL is still a pre-requisite, as well as the base DC. Got it.

That means for those who might be interested in me making something, there IS actually a risk involved and I may fail (with a bad dice roll) for these stat enhancement items.
Totally worth it.
 
Alrighty, I'll roll with that.

I was just reading a lot of things stating that the CL wasn't actually a "requirement" for the caster, but was just a description of power level. But we can consider the headband to be a base 18 DC to craft since I am under CL 8.

Do you want to do any "take 10" style rulings or want to roll a d20 for me for my headband? :)
 
You can take 10 anytime you're not rushed or distracted. Making items in town counts, but trying to do it while adventuring will require rolls. Here's the guy who wrote the book confirming it.
And within that post


magnuskn wrote:
Okay, so caster level is still not a prerequisite for item crafting. Why exactly is this then still stated in the magic items section of the APG? >.<​
Because I didn't see that before it went to print. :p You'll notice there's a FAQ item about this.

I'm really not trying to hard argue you on this![DOUBLEPOST=1378923769,1378923172][/DOUBLEPOST]Also, Evilcat, we can kinda "combine" our spells to craft items! Like, if you know a spell that is used to create something in the wondrous items list, and I do not, with your help and knowledge of the spell we can create the item! (unless I was misreading it).
 
That's... weird. Why would they even describe it as the caster level if it's only supposed to apply to the DC? Why not just say, "Base DC 8" (or 13)?

Whatever. I'm ruling that if you don't meet the caster level prereq, the DC is increased by 5. It doesn't matter, because you can take 10 and automatically succeed anyway.
 
Haha, that's fine. I said I would follow your ruling either way. <3

But time to create is 1 day per base cost, right? Not mats cost? So it'd take me 4 days to craft just my headband?
 
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