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But, He did it too!

And there is nothing wrong with Nickelback. ):

and idk. typing nickelback right now has made me realize how weird of a name nickelback is.

Carry on with this topic <3
 
I will say that if this is your belief to believe in no God then that is your personal belief and i will respect that.

You are sweet Baldo, but I will graciously pass. I too respect the faiths and/or non-faith of others.

Now on to gang banging...
 
You are sweet Baldo, but I will graciously pass. I too respect the faiths and/or non-faith of others.

Now on to gang banging...
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There is mutual want from many people for gang banging. It's on.
You tried to make this happen at foxwoods and failed. Try harder IMO.[DOUBLEPOST=1364423150,1364422058][/DOUBLEPOST]
What exactly makes something "wrong"?
OK, here I go.

My definition of "wrong" is: That which goes against your personal belief system and/or the societal rule set you live under.

The problem is that others have a different belief system and have to be convinced of your way of thinking. Be that through conversation, or brute force, or enforced consequences.

That which goes against your personal belief system and/or the societal rule set you live under.
Now I say and/or, but its mostly and. Lets look at the big ticket items. Killing, Stealing, Hurting Someone Else, etc. These types of things and more are so universally "wrong" that we make laws that seek to limit or remove those actions from the societal group. Even these things are not always wrong depending on your social group. Back in the days of swashbuckling pirates and naval battles if you belonged to a pirate society, stealing and killing was not wrong. In the middle east in the not so distant past honor killings were not wrong.

This is where the or comes in. If your personal belief system makes it wrong to kill or steal then you will decide not to kill or steal even if its OK in that society. It's just much harder to prove to others that those actions are wrong. If the rest of your society isn't backing you up then you have to convince each individual to believe what you do. When the society you are in backs you up with a shared belief system of what is right and wrong then you have something to point to to prove your point.
 
Personally I view morality to be higher than personal belief or judicial system. If you study the biology of social species there is a very clear balance of individual and group behaviors that promotes survival vs. extinction. Invariably there are those who are on the more selfish end of the spectrum (extreme example being sociopaths) and there are those who are on the more selfless end of the spectrum (extreme example see Mother Teresa). If the population as a whole shifts too far in either direction, it dies out; too selfish and it can't cooperate to maintain social structure and reproduce, too selfless and it can't compete and self-sacrifices into oblivion.

In nature selective pressures (in successful species) keep these factors in balance, but as we seem to enjoy doing in so many other areas, humans try to take a shot at regulating this evolution consciously in the form of laws and social contracts. While in many areas the direction of this tinkering is argued without end (see: economics, political "social" issues) there are several which are almost universally agreed upon. Killing, stealing and other obvious forms of harm are "banned" in order to maintain social order. In the wild, if there were too many killers or thieves in a group, that group would be unable to function and would die out (the selective pressure favoring more balanced groups in that species) but since we find it distasteful to sit around and watch a bunch of humans get themselves killed we try to cut out the middle part and jump straight to "hey... don't do that."

Alternatively however there is clearly a need for "selfish" individuals (as stated above in the example of a social species shifting *too* far towards altruism). As the wonders of capitalism have shown us, a handful of cutthroat individuals can fuel amazing innovation and improve life for the group as a whole (too many such individuals and you get the Great Recession, but humans are still not totally removed from nature so there you have it). Killers are also necessary; you certainly don't want an army of serial killers hanging around but to protect the species as a whole from intra- or interspecies violence you need a number of people willing to kill.

So ultimately morality stems from the necessary actions to preserve the species as a whole. Since we aren't quite thrilled at the prospect of having the wild brutally beat the answers into us we try to take a stab (no pun int... DAMMIT KISMET) at figuring it out ourselves. Everything after that (laws, religion, the golden rule, etc.) are just ways of communicating that primal need to SURVIVE.
 
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Kismet, If you don't believe in god i would love to help you understand him more and his love. I think Kel would also be willing to help anyone get a relationship with God again.

Lol. So now I'm the resident evangelist? I'll take it, there are much worse things to be.

Also, I agree, with Corvus. Morality comes from a higher authority than popular opinion and the government. That's why we can say it was still wrong to have slaves, even though a majority of Americans and the government was behind it at one point. It didnt become wrong when opinion shifted, it was always wrong.

Corvus and I diverge on the source of morality. Corvus points to nature, I say take one more step back and see the One who made nature. Nature is simply playing out the order that God created.

Not everything is about morality though. Steel toed boots are amoral. The rule is enforced to protect the rest of us from stupid people who want to get their toes cut off or crushed. Some might've guy that is also to protect the stupid people from themselves, but I don't like it when govt tries to do that. Let them kill themselves off I say.

Unfortunately, the gang bang is a moral issue, so ill be sitting that one out. Have fun though. I here crabs make great pets.
 
Unfortunately, the gang bang is a moral issue, so ill be sitting that one out. Have fun though. I here crabs make great pets.

It becomes a MORALE issue if no one participates! :) lol... and JUST SAY NO TO CRABS. Ewwww.

As an aside, evangelists (specifically TV ones with scary hair and 70's leisure suits) scare the hell out of me (pun intended just for Corvus!) But you don't Kel, you are nice. :) You don't have any powder blue tuxedos do you? *snicker*
 
Gonna glaze over the god bit cause we've been there before lol.

The idiots who ignore things like steel toed boots getting themselves killed off isn't exactly a heartbreaking concept for me, but I think the primary motivation of such restrictions is to protect everyone else from the idiots. People say the rules are "to protect you" because it makes a good soundbite (and maybe they're a little bleeding heart after all) but most of them are really to protect against lawsuits and work stoppages as a result of accidents. Similarly to reduce the burden on time and resources paid by the rest of society by an idiot. If a $100 pair of steel toed boots prevents $10,000 in hospital bills (not to mention the emergency workers' time) then yeah, we're going to make you wear them.

P.S. DAMN YOU KISMET! /fistshake
 
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