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GW2 Challenge Accepted! PsionicFox's Conditionmancer Build for Tristan (and anyone who wants to use it)!

Rate the build! Do you like it? Please give reasons below.


  • Total voters
    8

PsionicFox

Future Man
The Conditionmancer
The Conditionmancer (Mark II) [Using a new calculator]

Tristan, as promised, here is your build.

Okay, so this whole build sounds complex, but it's actually very simple.
The whole idea here is to win via condition control. Lets look at the way this build does that. We'll start with the weapon skills:

Scepter + Dagger: This combo is great for smacking your opponent with lots of conditions. Your auto-attack skill (1) places three conditions in the target. Two separate bleed stacks, and then a poison. Your (2) skill, Grasping Dead is an AoE Cripple + Bleed. Meanwhile your two dagger skills from the off-hand also grant conditions. The (5) skill, Enfeebling Blood is a ground targeted AoE that causes Weakness and Bleeding. While your (4) skill, Deathly Swarm unleashes a 1200 range blind for six seconds, and transferring up to three of your own conditions onto them upon hit. Pretty nice right? Now, you're probably wondering why i didn't mention the the (3) skill. And the reason is this: Feast of Corruption doesn't impose conditions. What it does do is additional damage for every condition the target is currently suffering. It also gives you bonus Life Force for every condition they're currently suffering. Which is VERY nice. We've got some nice chaining going on here. Thanks to the short cooldowns, we're going to be constantly applying conditions, or exploiting them for damage and Life Force.

Staff: The weapon has one direct damage skill. ONE. And it's your auto-attack. Every other skill is a ground targeted 'trap' called a 'Mark'. These 'Marks' are triggered by an enemy stepping into the trigger zone. The effect is limited to the trigger zone, which has a 120 radius. Please note, an enemy is the ONLY thing that can set a 'Mark' off once its cast. That and recasting it. Here they are in order:
(2) Mark of Blood: Causes Bleeding on the target, and Regen to allies.
(3) Chillblains: Causes Chilled. Also leaves a Poison Field for a few seconds.
(4) Putrid Mark: Transfers conditions from allies to foes.
(5) Reaper's Mark: Causes Fear.

Pretty neat right? You've got some solid condition smackdown, as well as some support in the form of dumping conditions from yourself and allies with a few spells. And we can do this at the extreme 1200 range via the staff, or at close range with the Scepter/Dagger combo. But so what? All you've done is stack them full of conditions. But this is where the real fun comes in.

Healing Spell: The spell you want here is Consume Conditions. This spell gives a flat heal to you, while removing any conditions you are currently suffering. Nice! But it gets better. It also increases the amount healed for each condition removed this way! With enough conditions on yourself, you can heal for around 75% of your health. 75%! But hang on a second, we shouldn't be suffering too many of those, since we're not on the frontlines, right? Wrong. See below.

Utility Skills: Here's where we get into the true power of this build. Allow me to demonstrate:
Plague Signet: The Passive effect here is very nice. It will draw a condition off of a nearby ally every few seconds, placing them on you. No thanks! I hear you say. But hear me out. The Active part of this skill takes every condition you are currently suffering, and places them on a target foe. Wow. Talk about suddenly having a bad day, right? So this is cool, but still not that amazing since we're just laying down conditions. But keep reading. It gets better.

Corrupt Boon: Now, this skill has a twofold effect. First, you get his with a self-target poison for six seconds. Normally, that would suck, but remember all those ways we can dump our conditions? Yeah, you can dump this one too. And when you consider that it also transforms every boon on the target into a condition, your poor target is now in a world of hurt. That Guardian getting uppity with all his boons? Shut him down with this!

Epidemic: This skill is incredible. Okay, your foe is Bleeding, Crippled, Chilled, Poisoned, Confused, you name it. Hit him with this spell. Now all of his friends are suffering those same conditions too. Holy condition hell, Batman! You just shut down that whole group!

Elite Skill: Here, you have a choice. Either Lich or Plague forms are going to be best here, with Plague just edging out the other due to the stacking of conditions. But that's my opinion.

The more astute amongst you already be seeing the combos evident in the build. The great part about this is that you don't need some ridiculous skill chain in order to make it work. 2-3 skills chain together will lay the smackdown. So I've simplified it down to some IF > THEN statements.

1. Does my opponent have 3+ conditions? If yes, use Epidemic and Corrupted Feast. If no, start stacking conditions.
2. Do I have 2+ conditions? Dump with Deathly Swarm, Consume Conditions, or Plague Signet.

These are the two main questions you need to ask yourself. The rest is simply you adapting to your situation.

Traits: Last part, I promise. So we're stacking conditions left right and center, but we need some traits to support that. To that end, we max out Spite, which passively increases our damage, along with the duration of our conditions. Perfect for this build. The passive Traits are Parasitic Bond, heal for some damage when you kill something, Death into Life, adding 5% of your power to healing effects (good for our heal skill), and Siphoned Power, which grants might if you drop below 25% health. Our selected Traits are: Signet Mastery to lower the cooldown on our Plague Signet (very important); Spiteful Marks making the Mark spells from our Staff weapon do more damage, allowing us to fulfill the 'artillery' role as needed; and Chill of Death. This one affects the target with Spinal Shivers when they hit >25% health. Spinal Shivers Chills the target and removes three Boons. Damn. Way to ensure the kill there.

Our next tree is Curses, which passively grants Precision (crit chance), and Condition Damage. So now our conditions last longer thanks to Spite, but now they do more damage? We rock! On top of that, we gain: Barbed Precision, making crits cause bleeding; Furious Demise granting fury when you use Death Shroud; and Target the Weak, which increases our damage for every condition on the target. Our selected Traits are: Hemophilia, making all Bleeds last longer; Master of Corruption, which speeds up the cooldown on Corrupted Boon and Epidemic; and finally Lingering Curse, making our Scepter-caused conditions last longer.

Our final ten points go into Blood for a bonus 1000 health, +100 to healing effects, as well as gaining a 5 second Regen when our health goes below 90% (30 second cooldown), and a free Mark of Blood casting every time we dodge. Alternatively, take the Trait that reduces dagger cooldowns. That's personal preference.

Cool, right?

Don't read if you don't want to. But this is the best non-MM build I can come up with without access to the game to playtest in. If you DO read it, as you can see, this non-MM build is really nice! Man that took a long time to write. But I think I'm done.

Phew!
 
Hiyas. Very well written and explained. I've been tinkering with Necro builds and trying my best to study all the pvp videos and such out there, so I'm still getting a handle on the class. I'm curious as to how this build would be best utilized. Obviously, it's condition/boon manipulation based but it seems survivability may be an issue in PvP with limited resources invested in Death Shroud while Spectral Armor and Lich are not used. Is this pretty much purely for a pre-made group where you're assuming plenty of support will be provided while the necro manipulates crowds of both enemies and friends? Seems like it might be glass cannonish to me, but since the damage is relatively low and spread over time, I'm not entirely sure how well that works. I'm guessing the goal here was to make a pure support build, I'm not privy to the details of the challenge.

Anyway, excellent write-up. I enjoyed the read and the build is interesting. I'll vote once I fully understand the purpose behind the build.
 
I'm glad you liked it!

The challenge was thus: Tr1age likes the Necromancer class, but hates the pets. He was bummed that he'd never play one as he felt that minions was their whole shebang. I told him this wasn't the case, and he challenged me to do a write up proving my stance.

You're right it IS designed as a Condition build, which I guess is a kind of support build. The survivability of this build comes from crippling foes. It's hard to do damage when you're worrying about bleeds and marks and chills, and the like. Also, you can still use Death Shroud to keep you up and about. And the Curse passives make hopping into Shroud pretty nice from time to time.

This build is actually very similar to a build from GW1 that used the skill Discord, if you're familiar with the concept. The idea here is the same: Stack conditions on the enemy through the myriad of options this build has, and then spike the hell out of them with skills like Corrupted Feast. Keep in mind that due to the sheer number of conditions you can push out, your PvP foes will have trouble clearing them all. There's just too many conditions to deal with all coming continuously.

And while I don't envisage this build only being viable in a premade pvp setup, that would be nice. But so would anything else. In WvWvW, you should never be alone anyway. And this will make for some solid contributions. And in grouped PvE like dungeon content, this guild should just STOMP on bosses and other mobs.

Keep in mind that this build has had very little in-game playtest from me at this stage. I WILL give a thorough tyre-kick during the next BWE though, if I get a chance. Otherwise, feel free to take the build for a spin.
 
HOLY CRAP, steps away to grab a coffee before embarking on this journey...
 
This is so frustrating. Every time I think I decide what professions I want and which will be my main, someone comes along with a post like this and makes me reconsider everything. I didn't even have necromancer in my top 5, and now I might have to do some character juggling.
 
Fox, I'm liking your idea with this build, and coincidentally before I read it, I started building along this line. I would say you run the risk of being a one-trick-pony with this build though, which isn't always best. Seeing as I haven't played in game yet, though, I could be horribly wrong.

I think my main concerns at the moment are that you're going for condition overkill. Necro's have always been a more anti-melee thing than anything, and it seems even in GW2, that's still what they excel at. Taking 1v2 fights down easy. Nullifying a duo of a combination of a War/Guard/Rang is what would be best, and being able to handle a magic-related situation at least until a friend can help is your backup.

Rewind... I just read in your response this is meant to be more of a WvW build... in that case, rock the hell on. Looks great. I'll make a separate post with a more sPvP related take.
 
I'm glad you liked it!

The challenge was thus: Tr1age likes the Necromancer class, but hates the pets. He was bummed that he'd never play one as he felt that minions was their whole shebang. I told him this wasn't the case, and he challenged me to do a write up proving my stance.

You're right it IS designed as a Condition build, which I guess is a kind of support build. The survivability of this build comes from crippling foes. It's hard to do damage when you're worrying about bleeds and marks and chills, and the like. Also, you can still use Death Shroud to keep you up and about. And the Curse passives make hopping into Shroud pretty nice from time to time.

This build is actually very similar to a build from GW1 that used the skill Discord, if you're familiar with the concept. The idea here is the same: Stack conditions on the enemy through the myriad of options this build has, and then spike the hell out of them with skills like Corrupted Feast. Keep in mind that due to the sheer number of conditions you can push out, your PvP foes will have trouble clearing them all. There's just too many conditions to deal with all coming continuously.

And while I don't envisage this build only being viable in a premade pvp setup, that would be nice. But so would anything else. In WvWvW, you should never be alone anyway. And this will make for some solid contributions. And in grouped PvE like dungeon content, this guild should just STOMP on bosses and other mobs.

Keep in mind that this build has had very little in-game playtest from me at this stage. I WILL give a thorough tyre-kick during the next BWE though, if I get a chance. Otherwise, feel free to take the build for a spin.

Thank you for the response and clarification! I'll certainly give this a shot going forward and see how it plays. I'm a little apprehensive about PvP still, but for a PvE build, it's probably a viable alternative to the minion route. Again, nicely done.
 
Noooo, don't tell him about this build. Ahhh crap. This is one of the builds that wrecks a guardian that's not spamming condition removes...oh well looks like I'll be on Tristan's team in PvP....always from now on ;)
 
All of this is from Team Paradigm and I thought it was one of the best played necro vids I've seen. (which isn't saying much since no one really knows how to play the game yet, lol)

The build is from BWE#1 and once the trait tiers were put in the build isn't as good as it was, but still a really good condition build for tons of survivability via Death Shroud.

The Build:


The Build in Action:


Build in BWE#1:
http://www.gw2builds.org/create/bwe_1/necromancer#3.0.1.2-1.2.11.13.2-10.25.10.15.10-4.11.3.10.11.3

Updated trait build for BWE#2:
http://www.gw2tools.com/skills#n;fNfSf;XaabcadaaXaabaa;cbYd;ZbUTZ

The only differences are you don't apply spinal shivers on entering death shroud and you don't gain stability. You do gain retaliation and life force drains slower.
 
Ha I like it, reminds me of my Spiteful Spirit Condition Build of GW1, spam conditions while they kill themselves >.>
 
Okay, since people mentioned not liking the survivability (or lack thereof), I tweaked the build a little (See the Mark 2 version). The skills are identical, but the new trait spread will help survival somewhat. It allows us to capitalise on Death Shroud somewhat, as well as some defensive powers that activate passively when you're getting focused down. How's that?
 
Wish I could see the build right now, I'm at the pharmacy and they block all game related stuff... I'm amazed I'm able to get on the forums. Any chance you can list the skills, Fox?
 
The skills are identical to the first version of the build. Its the Traits that are different.

The Trait build is now as follows:

20 into Smite (+200 power, +20% Condition Duration): Signet Mastery and Spiteful Marks.
30 into Curses (+300 Precision, +300 Condition Damage): Hemophilia, Master of Corruption, Lingering Curse.
20 into Soul Reaping (+20 Prowess, +20% Life Force Pool): Vital Persistence, Decaying Swarm.

EDIT: A few people have made a big point to me about being concerned about direct damage, and also about my condition overkill. They seem to be worried that the skill lacks spiking ability.

Allow me to direct you to the 3rd skill on your Scepter: Feast of Corruption. Look at the skill. Look at it. You want direct damage? You got it, in the form of a serious damage spike every ten seconds.
 
Okay, since people mentioned not liking the survivability (or lack thereof), I tweaked the build a little (See the Mark 2 version). The skills are identical, but the new trait spread will help survival somewhat. It allows us to capitalise on Death Shroud somewhat, as well as some defensive powers that activate passively when you're getting focused down. How's that?

The new build is very similar to the tankmage build I'm trying to work on for BWE3. I'm locked in at 30 Skill Reaping, 30 Curses, and 10 Might. Most of the optional traits are different, but then we're working on different end goals. For what you're trying to do, I do like this one better.
 
Tankmage build, eh? I'd actually make a Minion Master, as one of the Death Magic traits meshes really nicely with being tanky. plus, you get lots of toughness too.

I'd do something like Dagger/Warhorn or Axe/Warhorn for a tanky build. Probably dagger for the lifesteal with some ranks in Blood Magic.
 
Tankmage build, eh? I'd actually make a Minion Master, as one of the Death Magic traits meshes really nicely with being tanky. plus, you get lots of toughness too.

I'd do something like Dagger/Warhorn or Axe/Warhorn for a tanky build. Probably dagger for the lifesteal with some ranks in Blood Magic.

I'm not really interested in the minions so much. That's not really my playstyle. My goal is something along the lines of a Shadowknight/Bloodmage mix. I'm actually focusing on high crit, frontloaded damage abilities, and major emphasis on Deathshroud buffs. It's the anti-condition build, if you will, but only because I think Necro's can be great tanks and they do have some frontloaded damage abilities. Something I'm really wanting to try out is the Signet of Spite/Feast of Corruption kaboom when it's been boosted with traits and buffs, along with the high crit and 30% crit damage trait boosts.
 
That could be nice, but that spike isn't going to be reliable since Signet of Spite has a NINETY second cooldown. To make it viable for any length of time, you would need to be taking advantage of boon duration.

I do something like this: Tankymancer.

See how that grabs you.
 
That could be nice, but that spike isn't going to be reliable since Signet of Spite has a NINETY second cooldown. To make it viable for any length of time, you would need to be taking advantage of boon duration.

I do something like this: Tankymancer.

See how that grabs you.

That's a really good build for a lower damage, survivability tank necro. And if what I'm trying to do does not work out, there's a high percentage I would do something almost identical to what you just created for live. I do like it. I'm just holding out hope I can make a high front loaded damage tankmage. I've got about a three page paper written on what I'm doing and why I'm taking what I'm taking. I just haven't finished it yet as I'm hoping to hear about the changes for BWE3. I already do know our defensive capabilities are getting nerfed to some degree and that they are likely lowering the damage of Deathshroud abilities due to all the whiners that were destroyed by Necros last BWE.

If they force Necros to be a support oriented, DoT or pet class. I'll have to look to another class, probably Guardian. I really prefer the evil hybrid tank/spellcaster class though, ever since EQ1, so hopefully they don't tinker with the current Necro build too much.
 
I beleive I read condition damage can be considerable once you have 7+ stacked bleeds on a target (which is not hard to do). Something like 1K damage a tick. Add in your other damage capabilities, and my favorite Feast of Corruption, your target is now a corpse.
 
Yeah, that Tankomancer will pull similar damage like my conditionmancer (but not as much), as well as being more supportive through Well use. And Feast of Corruption is freaking AMAZING.
 
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