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Dorner: Hero, Anti-Hero, or Douche-Bag?

Was Dorner a Her0, Anti-Hero, or Douche-Bag?

  • Hero

    Votes: 1 10.0%

  • Anti-Hero

    Votes: 2 20.0%

  • Douche-Bag

    Votes: 7 70.0%
  • Total voters
    10
K

Keleynal

Jesus Freak
It looks like the saga of crazy ex-cop Christopher Dorner is finally coming to an end.

In case you've been under a rock for the last week or so, Dorner used to be a police officer in LA until he was fired in 2009. Officially, he was let go for making false accusations against fellow officers. According to him, he was kicked off the force for crossing the "Blue Line"- the unwritten rule that cops don't narc on each other no matter what.

He spent the last few years going through the appeal process and accusing his former coworkers of all kinds of conspiracies and cahooting, but to no avail. Once he felt he had exhausted all legal routes, he completely snapped and decided the only thing left to do was go on a murderous rampage.

He wrote a long manifesto (that I think can still be found at foxnews.com) and basically declared war against all LA cops. The first thing he did was to kill his former police captain's daughter and fiance. Then he ambushed some officers, killing one and wounding two. Dorner then fell off the grid for a bit while about every cop and FBI agent in California looked for him. He stole a car, broke into a home, tied up a couple people, stole another car, and was eventually trapped in a cabin out in the woods somewhere. After another shootout with some deputies where he killed another officer, the police shot some incendiary gas canisters into the cabin. The cabin caught fire and burned to the ground, apparently with Dorner still inside. Charred human remains were found, but 100% confirmation is not in that it is, in fact Dorner.

The official line is that the police didn't mean to set fire to the cabin, but who knows. They were pretty pissed.

So while all this was going on, there's been different camps of people actually rooting for Dorner. The LA police have a less than stellar record on corruption and shady dealings, and some think that while Dorner's actions were extreme, they can sympathize or even justify his actions.

Personally, I sympathized with the guy right up to the moment he shot that girl and her fiance in cold blood. For me, that put him firmly into the douche-bag category, and I'm glad he's dead before he can kill anyone else. If he wasn't so bat-shit crazy and instead made a huge stink by writing books, appearing on talk shows, organizing peaceful demonstrations and sit-ins, or generally making a nuisance of himself, I might have been able to get behind him. I contend that without doing that (peaceful protest), he had not "exhausted all other options" and was completely unjustified in using force. Now will never get any kind of justice and instead be another crazy case study.
 
It is quite interesting. Had not heard of this. I feel like they are gonna make a movie about this.
 
I'm sorry, but the moment you murder someone your credibility falls in my eyes. Dorner's fight against corruption within the LAPD would have been a noble one if he didn't kill anyone, especially the daughter and her fiance. That's just terrible. Political/Social activism needs to be accompanied by a spirit of non-violence. Sure, it takes more work, but it ultimately leads to a stronger message. So, definitely going to go with anti-hero.
 
I agree with Chez up to a point, but once you cross the line of murdering innocent people you lose all credibility. Sounds like this guy had a slow descent into madness and then snapped. Wacko douche-bag, but one that might have been averted if he was given proper access to mental health care.
 
This story stinks like high heaven. Hes supposedly trying to expose corruption in the LAPD, and while trying to stay free he guns down cops, but refuses to hurt civilians he stole a car from. The FBI is quickly called in and they tack a $1 million dollar bounty on him as quick as can be. Meanwhile supposedly you have cops shooting up cars that match the description of the vehicle Dorner was driving. From what I can understand I mean literally just stopping the car and pumping it full of lead. Then as they close in on him in the supposed end of this story, they order the news helicopters out of the area. Then they torch the house, pull out a body and supposedly find his wallet completely intact, when initially they reported they found his wallet at a border crossing. You also have audio of the cops talking about burning the damn house down.

My question is, what the hell did this guy know that people didnt want him to share? What did he see? Did those people the mainstream media claimed he killed actually exist?

Its like Sandy Hook. Some of the news outlets continued to report Lanza was found in the school with 2 pistols and an assault rifle, when there is actual news video of the police pulling said assault rifle from the trunk of his car and other news outlets reporting it correctly that he had 4 pistols on his person and an assault rifle in the car. Meanwhile you have these insane politicians using the even to fuel a possible ban on assault rifles. The very term is disgusting, every weapon can be used to assault people and there is no weapon class that is called an assault rifle. Then theres also the comical video catching one of the 'fathers' of the children murdered right before he goes on camera, joking and laughing with reporters, not realizing the camera is on maybe? As soon as he starts his speech his demeanor does a 180 and hes all wah wah. Now we could chalk this up to extreme stress, nervousness about being on camera possibly.

Basically all I am saying is I tend to not believe anything out of the media, except the weather report. I don't know what happened with Dorner. For all we know it could have been some sort of supposed false flag event.

EDIT: I would like to point out that if the story is true then Dorner is another person who fell victim to our horrible excuse for a mental health system in this country. The problem is not guns its mental health. I can attest as I am on the front lines of this every day. New York State has 3 major mental health facilities that will take 'criminals' and we can transport inmates to them. They are always full and we tend to wait on a list for one bed. We get more and more mentally ill inmates in every month, the problem is not just going to go away and we are talking super small county jail. If I can see the rising tide of mentally ill or impaired, I can only imagine what state prison looks like. We aren't equipped to deal with stuff like this. Dictator Obama should be focusing his efforts on mental health not bringing about civil war.
 
Zakis said:
This story stinks like high heaven. Hes supposedly trying to expose corruption in the LAPD, and while trying to stay free he guns down cops, but refuses to hurt civilians he stole a car from. The FBI is quickly called in and they tack a $1 million dollar bounty on him as quick as can be. Meanwhile supposedly you have cops shooting up cars that match the description of the vehicle Dorner was driving. From what I can understand I mean literally just stopping the car and pumping it full of lead. Then as they close in on him in the supposed end of this story, they order the news helicopters out of the area. Then they torch the house, pull out a body and supposedly find his wallet completely intact, when initially they reported they found his wallet at a border crossing. You also have audio of the cops talking about burning the damn house down.

My question is, what the hell did this guy know that people didnt want him to share? What did he see? Did those people the mainstream media claimed he killed actually exist?

Its like Sandy Hook. Some of the news outlets continued to report Lanza was found in the school with 2 pistols and an assault rifle, when there is actual news video of the police pulling said assault rifle from the trunk of his car and other news outlets reporting it correctly that he had 4 pistols on his person and an assault rifle in the car. Meanwhile you have these insane politicians using the even to fuel a possible ban on assault rifles. The very term is disgusting, every weapon can be used to assault people and there is no weapon class that is called an assault rifle. Then theres also the comical video catching one of the 'fathers' of the children murdered right before he goes on camera, joking and laughing with reporters, not realizing the camera is on maybe? As soon as he starts his speech his demeanor does a 180 and hes all wah wah. Now we could chalk this up to extreme stress, nervousness about being on camera possibly.

Basically all I am saying is I tend to not believe anything out of the media, except the weather report. I don't know what happened with Dorner. For all we know it could have been some sort of supposed false flag event.

EDIT: I would like to point out that if the story is true then Dorner is another person who fell victim to our horrible excuse for a mental health system in this country. The problem is not guns its mental health. I can attest as I am on the front lines of this every day. New York State has 3 major mental health facilities that will take 'criminals' and we can transport inmates to them. They are always full and we tend to wait on a list for one bed. We get more and more mentally ill inmates in every month, the problem is not just going to go away and we are talking super small county jail. If I can see the rising tide of mentally ill or impaired, I can only imagine what state prison looks like. We aren't equipped to deal with stuff like this. Dictator Obama should be focusing his efforts on mental health not bringing about civil war.
Click to expand...

For anyone curious Zakis is heading up said civil war and opposes anything against the second amendment :) To which I feel like he should DEFINITELY write a rant because it would spark one hell of a debate :)
 
I agree with some of what Zakis said, but not all.

I'm definitely on the same page about using Sandy Hook to foster AR fear when that type of weapon was not actually involved, but I am still of the opinion that military style weapons belong with the military, but I already have another whole rant about that.

I do to think Dorner was insane. That is, he must have been some level of crazy to do what he did, but he did in a methodical, thought out manner, utilizing the training he had received from the police and military. So I do think he was competent and fully responsible for his actions. No amount of counseling would have stopped him.

I also do not believe that there is a huge conspiracy here to silence Dorner. He was fired back in 2009. If he was carrying some kind of secret powerful people wanted silenced, he would have been killed long ago, quietly. He had a million dollar bounty on his head because he was killing cops AND THEIR FAMILIES. The response was emotional because it was personal. I knew from the start that they would never take him alive. The police didn't want to and he wouldn't have allowed it in any case.

Did they burn the house to the ground intentionally? It doesn't seem that what they used was designed to start fires, but once it got going, they made no attempt to put it out or offer a way of escape. Some reports seem to indicate he shot himself before he could burn, but who knows.

The whole thing is a tragedy, start to finish.
 
My god, I've had it up to here with the Dorner conspiracy bullshit. Reddit (and the rest of the internet) seemed to immediately take the anti-police position the second the case came to light. And its ironic that is Dorner was still in the uniform when this all happened the reddit pseudo liberals would be crawling out of the woodwork to condemn him.

So what evidence did the internet have to condemn the police? A rambling manifesto that claims a conspiracy against him by the LAPD, among other inane musings. A couple of over-zealous arrest attemptos (one of which included opening fire unannounced on a simmilar (but different) pickup truck from Dorner's). Horrendous and utterly stupid, but does little to prove Dorner's earlier claims. Does it show the LAPD is poorly trained and too trigger happy? Yes. A master conspiracy? Not at all.

Second lets see the case for Dorner just being insane. After losing his job he became emotionally unstable and eventual divorced his wife. And over the next couple of years drifted away and lost contact with his friends. Eventually he wrote a rambling manifesto. Then he killed some former coworkers and their loved ones.

Also the police force that cornered him in the cabin in the woods? Completely different force from the LAPD. So unless this completely unexplained conspiracy is national and highly organized there is nothing to reason from this exchange.

The man was insane, and we see insane people claim grievances against their work all the time. If he was claiming conspiracy against his local hardware store, restaurant, or the Green Bay Packers we wouldn't bat an eyelash. But since he worked for the LAPD the anti-establishment knee-jerk force was out in full effect.

I agree we should should question authority. But when people are grasping at straws and canonizing a mass murderer its time to reconsider and pick your battles.

Edit #1 Calling Obama a dictator is just plain stupid. He is democratically elected, so saying such things only make people tune out to the rest of whatever is being said. To call him a dictator only serves to cheapen the word when used to describe true dictators.
 
RiftZombie said:
Edit #1 Calling Obama a dictator is just plain stupid. He is democratically elected, so saying such things only make people tune out to the rest of whatever is being said. To call him a dictator only serves to cheapen the word when used to describe true dictators.
Click to expand...

Just because he was elected doesn't mean he's not a dictator. Many dictators are "elected." Sometimes legitimately, sometimes not. I think it is safe to characterize Obama as a legitimately elected dictator, given the amount of power grabbing he's been doing.

That aside, the prevalence of conspiracy theories on the web just shows that anyone can (and will) post stupid stuff. Maybe they are trolls or maybe they really are that dumb.

Which begs the question: who is dumber- the one who posts stupid crap on reddit, or the one that goes to reddit looking for valid information?
 
Keleynal said:
Just because he was elected doesn't mean he's not a dictator. Many dictators are "elected." Sometimes legitimately, sometimes not. I think it is safe to characterize Obama as a legitimately elected dictator, given the amount of power grabbing he's been doing."
Click to expand...

Well lets see the definition of a dictator. "A dictator is a ruler (e.g. absolutist or autocratic) w]ho assumes sole and absolute power (sometimes, but not always, with military control or bribes) but not officially sanctioned by heritage, as is an absolute monarch."

We still have a large system of checks and balances, and a two party system. (flawed as it may be.) Does Obama overstep his constitutional powers? Perhaps at times, but that certainly does not make him a dictator.

And yes of course all internet information should be taken with a grain of salt. But so should any source, nothing is purely correct. So no, it's not dumb to look for information on reddit, information should be found, and analyzed, from any source; but of course always remain skeptical.
 
I"ll see your American Heritage, and raise you a Websters-Merriam:

Dictator:
1 a : a person granted absolute emergency power; especially : one appointed by the senate of ancient Rome

b : one holding complete autocratic control

c : one ruling absolutely and often oppressively
2
: one that dictates
Again, I'd argue (and you seem to agree, to an extent) that Obama has been very power-grabbing and overstepping in his authority. It is to the point that he has complete control? Of course not, but he is certainly willing to take any unilateral action necessary to further his agenda.
In the State of the Union address, he explicitly stated that if Congress did not pass the reforms he was looking for, he would use (abuse?) the executive branch to do it anyway. That is both autocratic and oppressive.
Plus, I'm pretty sure he dictates his letters, so there you go.
 
I'm not as alarmed as you, I still respect him, even if I don't agree with everything he has done.


My... we've strayed off track.
 
Wow I missed some posts on here. I can't stand people that would label certain people conspiracy nuts because they dare to question things. Not saying you were doing that to me Zombie, just felt it needed to be said. Anyway I just see Obama getting worse. The best part is I get to deal with his little mini-me Governor Cuomo. I did laugh though when Cuomo shot himself in the foot with his magazine capacity law.

We are a bit off track though. Maybe another separate rant thread on Dictator Obama and the United Police States of America is warranted.
 
meh, I really don't care what it evolves/devolves into, and I'm actually less gungho in my Obama opposition that what I appear here. I just like startin' trouble. *ponysmile:

I say question everything, but don't ask stupid questions.
 
Yes please keep on topic with the Obama topic which I feel is a bursting to get out rant by Zakis, we can however separate the obama stuff into a new rant if you all like?
 
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