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Flying the Flag

All I have to say is, remember that this is the rant section and that we are all allowed to express our views openly and is encouraged. Remember that any disagreements are fine, but to not overflow into the fabrication of TAB itself. <3

If we want to split this into two topics, let me know starting with which post and it can be taken care of. All great discussions and exactly what the rant section is for, just remember to respect the person behind the screen.
 
Crake said:
Also, the second one faces way more flak in our country and this is part of the problem as far as freedom of expression.
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I honestly do not believe that. I find the first one to not represent the true meaning of Christianity. Yes, it is true but the Hell Fire is not the right way to get people into church and convert and show the why Christ died on the cross.

Somehow it got back to a Christianity vs Athiest speech.

Slowly going to bring this back to the flag. There are a ton of people who don't agree with taking down the flag. The flag should be there to stay
 
Gyoin said:
If we want to split this into two topics, let me know starting with which post and it can be taken care of. All great discussions and exactly what the rant section is for, just remember to respect the person behind the screen.
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I have the utmost respect for everyone here defending their opinions. That much hasn't changed. Yes we differ and we are discussing. I may get heated sometimes but in no means are intending to do harm.

Keleynal said:
You aren't being sensitive enough. Imagine if you had to listen to a creed that you don't believe in every single day while it is chanted by everyone around you. Sure, you can choose not to participate, but how does that make someone feel to be singled out and different like that? Especially a kid? A lot of times, they just start going with the flow. At first just to fit in, but over time their beliefs can be changed and they can become part of the group. And that's called brainwashing.
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I get asked to go drinking with people. I am not a drinker so I say no, the people still ask me and I say no, I still hang out with them and laugh with them but I don't need to conform to them just because. They are fine doing what they are doing.

Better example, lunch, work lunch, the guys here go out to lunch everyday but I bring my lunch. They ask everyday and I thanks but I have my lunch, they say ok and go about their way. Do I feel a need to "fit in" to the group. Absolutely not. This is the same way I was when I was a kid. Remember, I didn't believe in God until I was 21 so I wasn't in "the circle" living in the south where believing in God is like breathing air.

Again, just because "one" person cries about a situation or the things that are going on doesn't mean we need to conform, change a law, or destroy the way America was brought up just to make this person "feel good". Yes, we can do all we can to help them and make them comfortable but that is why America is such a great place. We can all have different opinions but they don't have to be honored or made law becuase it is the way they feel about something. The majority votes.
 
Baldoraxx said:
I have the utmost respect for everyone here defending their opinions. That much hasn't changed. Yes we differ and we are discussing. I may get heated sometimes but in no means are intending to do harm.


I get asked to go drinking with people. I am not a drinker so I say no, the people still ask me and I say no, I still hang out with them and laugh with them but I don't need to conform to them just because. They are fine doing what they are doing.

Better example, lunch, work lunch, the guys here go out to lunch everyday but I bring my lunch. They ask everyday and I thanks but I have my lunch, they say ok and go about their way. Do I feel a need to "fit in" to the group. Absolutely not. This is the same way I was when I was a kid. Remember, I didn't believe in God until I was 21 so I wasn't in "the circle" living in the south where believing in God is like breathing air.

Again, just because "one" person cries about a situation or the things that are going on doesn't mean we need to conform, change a law, or destroy the way America was brought up just to make this person "feel good". Yes, we can do all we can to help them and make them comfortable but that is why America is such a great place. We can all have different opinions but they don't have to be honored or made law becuase it is the way they feel about something. The majority votes.
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Still not quite there. In all those situations, you are an adult in control of your environment and decisions. Children are forced to go to public school. The only alternatives are costly and time consuming, and not a possibility for many families. They are also not as emotionally or socially mature as you are. This is the same concern that many Christian parents have about sending their kids to a liberal college where the culture can be pretty oppressive and pressure Christians to give up their beliefs.

Also, saying the Pledge of Allegiance is a form of patriotism and belonging to the culture at large, not just a social thing that you do with a couple friends. Don't you think the Pledge should be taken seriously? Personally, I want everyone that says the Pledge to mean it because I think the values it upholds are important. So it's much more charged with meaning than having a drink or a lunch meeting. You may be OK being branded as antisocial, but others are very uncomfortable being seen as unpatriotic or un-American when they don't see themselves that way.

I can say all this and still be in favor of keeping the Pledge exactly the way it is. I'm willing to walk a mile in their shoes and understand where they are coming from. Just bcause I recognize that they have a point doesn't mean I validate the argument or agree with them. I'd like to see you be more sympathetic. When Jesus confronted people, He used a variety of approaches. When the woman who was caught in adultery was about to be stoned, Jesus stopped them, forgave her, and gave her another chance. When He confronted the money changers in the temple, He got all pissed off and threw them all out. In the context of this discussion forum, I think we need to opt for the former approach. I think His heart breaks when He sees people hurting. Sometimes the tough love of "suck it up and move on" does more harm than good. Like Jesus, we need to be flexible in our approach.
 
Keleynal said:
I can say all this and still be in favor of keeping the Pledge exactly the way it is. I'm willing to walk a mile in their shoes and understand where they are coming from. Just bcause I recognize that they have a point doesn't mean I validate the argument or agree with them. I'd like to see you be more sympathetic. When Jesus confronted people, He used a variety of approaches. When the woman who was caught in adultery was about to be stoned, Jesus stopped them, forgave her, and gave her another chance. When He confronted the money changers in the temple, He got all pissed off and threw them all out. In the context of this discussion forum, I think we need to opt for the former approach. I think His heart breaks when He sees people hurting. Sometimes the tough love of "suck it up and move on" does more harm than good. Like Jesus, we need to be flexible in our approach.
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I know these references but I also know the references of him not wanting us to break his commandments. Love the sinner hate the sin. I fully accept this approach because we are all sinners. I have seen walking through their shoes, I went to a public school. Public school are a disaster. I went through a LOT when I went, all the way up until I graduated. You grow thick skin and learn to love those who hurt you. I still firmly believe in "Got a scratch, rub a little dirt on it and grit your teeth".There are times when kids should be babied and times when there needs to be a strong hand.

To the Pledge of Allegiance, it is our country anthem and is a symbol of patriotism. If you live here I believe that you should take pride in that. And I know a statement following this would be "If someone moved from another country, what about them", my response would be that's fine, represent your country but also take pride in the country you now live in. If I moved to Canada I would still bide by their rules, sing their anthem if I was required but never lose my roots.
 
I like Kel's approach to the situation, and that's really my aim in this type of debate: I disagree, but I acknowledge where you are coming from. I think that is the first step in forging an agreement in these situations.

To the issue of the flag. Our government should be made to be as unbiased as possible. It should serve us in an unbiased way, and it should not display political opinions that may undermine a portion of the population to the best of it's ability. The flag is obviously a divisive issue as a large amount of people have expressed distaste too it (not just 'one' salty alarmist individual). I don't think I have to explain why the government should not display biases. If our government became a more objective entity, not only would people have more faith in the ruling bodies, but I believe it would discourage discrimination and prejudice inherent to those that compose the government. Obviously people will always have their private thoughts, but allowing them to push their bias onto display in the government is not helping.

You can feel that the flag is unoffensive, but when a large amount of people disagree it becomes an issue of political bias and displaying the flag perpetuates that bias, whereas removing it removes the 'government's' opinion on the matter. If people in the south want to fly their controversial flag, then so be it. I can't say I condone it, and I can't say I'd blame people for disliking them for it, but the government should not be allowed to have a political belief in this matter.
 
So let's paint everything white and take down every flag and I mean every flag, why not the American one to. That's pretty biased towards this country. Make everything as unbiased as possible and let all the commies in. K gotcha
 
My 200 Drachmeas:

If someone looks to an abstract idea, a group of people, an organized system to express their inner thoughts,
they have already given up their soul.
Now, finding inspiration and structure from others is natural, but self discovery and questions about the existing tradition are CRITICAL!

Believe in yourself and look for why you are different than others, then instead of fighting them try to help them grow.

That one comment is the CORE OF EVERY STUPID RELIGION ON THE PLANET.
Yet, somehow every monotheistic system likes to fight.

Tell me, how is this a good thing?

I'm all about the message, but I'll never be about the practice until religious history begins to catch up with that original message.
(in other words it's up to our generation to think instead of follow)
Don't look for a right answer, or believe yours is the only way. Look for what it is in the other person you can agree on, then revel and enjoy the stupid petty differences because despite all that social frosting that core of what you are and want someone else wants in life is 99% always the same.
Any doctrine which forces light on the minute differences is suspect.
Any doctrine which looks for a reason to get along is probably a lot better in the long run.

Just life talking.
(Law, NOW that's a different story!)
 
Can someone explain why ANYONE wants to fly a flag representative of a divided United States?

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Baldoraxx said:
So let's paint everything white and take down every flag and I mean every flag, why not the American one to. That's pretty biased towards this country. Make everything as unbiased as possible and let all the commies in. K gotcha
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This isn't the point. The point is to show unification. The war that the confederate flag represents was lost by the south and it unified this country under one flag.

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I haven't read the entire thread but was it ever discussed why the confederate flag stuck around? Was it to appease the south in the aftermath of losing the war? Don't we think that to unify this country we should move past this point in history? When trying to explain the confederate flag to someone outside of the US it feels like you'd have egg on your face. "This is our flag from when the country was divided in a civil war. We still keep it around to remind ourselves of the way things use to be."
 
Simpwn said:
This isn't the point. The point is to show unification. The war that the confederate flag represents was lost by the south and it unified this country under one flag.

images


I haven't read the entire thread but was it ever discussed why the confederate flag stuck around? Was it to appease the south in the aftermath of losing the war? Don't we think that to unify this country we should move past this point in history? When trying to explain the confederate flag to someone outside of the US it feels like you'd have egg on your face. "This is our flag from when the country was divided in a civil war. We still keep it around to remind ourselves of the way things use to be."
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This is my thinking exactly. I hate that flag. You can't defend it with a straight face and still be patriotic.

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Simpwn said:
I haven't read the entire thread but was it ever discussed why the confederate flag stuck around? Was it to appease the south in the aftermath of losing the war?
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The Confederate Flag as we know it was never the official flag of the Confederacy, but saw action as a naval flag and the flag of the Army of Northern Virginia under Robert E Lee. It was largely forgotten outside of the historian circle until WWII, when it was used as a unit flag for a lot of "Rebel Companies"—groups of primarily Southern soldiers serving in the Pacific. They brought their fondness for it back from the war, and it just kind of took off as the unofficial flag of the Baby-Boom-era South. And now here we are.

The classic Stars and Bars is actually another flag entirely, which looks like this:

us-csa1s.gif


The fact that people defend the "Rebel Flag" using a nickname that was coined for another flag entirely just makes it even better.


As for why it was kept around, I mean... have you tried arguing with a Southern person about this Goddamn thing? You can't get somebody from South Carolina to admit that maybe it would've been tactful to pull it down on the day the funeral processions drove by, nevermind for good.
 
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