GW2 [Podcast #15] Guild Wars 2 "How to make MONEY!" Part 1

[tr1age]

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The members of http://alttabme.com came together during this weekly podcast to talk about "How to make MONEY Part 1!"

The questions answered here are some of the top questions we get during our live streams at http://alttabme.com/live and these forums!

We are live Mondays @ 5:15 EST : http://alttabme.com/live

If you wish to submit questions for next weeks podcast for please feel free to post on the forums.

Link to MP3 Download can be found in the summary on Youtube.

Summary of Podcast:

General principals of making gold in game
- opportunity cost
Figure out what your time is worth. Craft, farm, tp, or whatever at the highest yield (unless it isn't fun for you)
Stuff you found isn't “free” its worth market price. If you can sell the parts for more than the finished product you should, then buy the finished product.
- keeping track of update notes for investments
Get in a market early and sell back to the people who come in later
- use online resources for making your life easier
Check the links provided
- how a global trading post is different from a server only trading post
More balanced trading post, easier to trust prices wont fluxuate tons. Less niche markets, takes more work to make gold just from the tp. Makes you play the game more and do the long term strategies for gold.

General principals of saving gold
- use badges of honor, karma, gems, and skill points to buy stuff instead of gold
items for crafting, gear, weapons, even using the magic find to upgrade existing mats, epic weapons, gathering tools, salvage kits
- getting mystic salvage kits to save gold and be more efficient at salvaging
one blue 252, green 700, yellow 1344 stack of salvage kits plus 3 mystic forge stones 10 for 450gems gets a stack of 250 mystic salvage kits. Total for 3 stacks 450gems 1g26s00c plus 6888 karma = 750 kits. That comes out to 16 copper each salvage. Normal blue kits are 12c green kits are 32c and yellow kits are 61c per salvage. 750 rare salvage kits will cost 4g60s80c and take up 30 bag/bank slots.
- using the mystic forge instead of vendoring or salvaging
when you put in 4 same rarity items you get another item that is the same or better quality. You may not always be able to use it but you can then sell it. If you want to have a specific type of item (like greatsword) you have to but 4 of those same item types and rarity in. Most profitable when putting in lvl 74 or above rares because of the chance of an epic or legendary precursor.
- buying bag slots or character slots with gems instead of 18 and 20 slot bags
Tristan's writeup on the website
- buying from the TP overnight or on weekdays instead of weekends
use links like gw2spidy.com to see market trends
- using karma to get trade mats instead of farming or paying gold on the TP
There are renown heart vendors that will sell cooking supplies, gear, gathering tools, even ore or wood for karma spaced all around the world. If you arent saving your karma use it like a second income instead of gold.

Crafting for profit or lack thereof
- any profitable recipes?
Bloodsaw, and other recipes that are karma bought
Global economy makes it almost impossible to craft for profit right now
Farming
- what type of things should you farm? armor/weapons, fine crafting materials, loot bags
high level and low level everything sells well now so farm there, middle levels are a bust.
- resource gathering: ore, wood, food harvesting? What areas are better?
High and low areas again.

Playing the Trading Post
- 5% listing fee and 10% sale fee
know it live it love it. Convert prices to copper then multiply by .85
- how to buy or sell effectively
buy orders
- should you undercut and by how much?
Undercut on single item sales like found gear, selling is first listed first sold, buying is last listed first sold.
- vendor or trading post and how to determine which to sell on
give yourself at least a 20 or 25% leeway so you can relist it. Never sell for just above vendor price. Right click on item, then chose sell on tp, hover over item and it will tell you vendor price in the bottom corner. Eyeball the prices and decide.
- buying mats and combining them to sell at a second level profit
logs to planks, mats to inscriptions, ore to ingot

Mystic forge and other gambles
- How to determine if using the mystic forge is worth the gamble in the long run
It takes lots of experimentation, but If you have the gold to spend then you can get lucky. Like the lottery
- what types of things can you make in the forge to earn gold
basic crafting mats, epic weapons, gear sets, food feasts
- mystic salvage kits (especially when the mats are purchased with karma)
see above
- salvaging, at what levels is it profitable or smarter to salvage vs sell items. also what kits should you use?
Low levels for copper and jute, high levels for gossamer, ecto, and orichalcum. Use crude on salvage items its the same chance at mats. Use mystic or master for yellows and any greens you want the sigil from. Only do level 74 or above rares for ectos.

We will most like do a part two of this to address things such as farming, the negatives of botting on the economy etc etc.

Links used in the podcast:


Bag Slots
http://alttabme.com/forum/index.php?threads/bags-or-bag-slots.1577/

Gw2 gold making blog sites
http://www.guildwars2riches.com/
http://www.guildwars2tradingpost.com/
http://www.gw2goldguide.net/

All in one how to crafting guide
http://gaiscioch.com/tavern/guildwars_crafting/post_35198.html

Powerleveling crafting for all disciplines
https://sites.google.com/site/guildwars2crafting/

Gw2 database sites and wiki
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.gw2db.com/
http://www.guildhead.com/

Farming nodes locations
(cursed shore omnomberry. orichalcum, ancient logs)
https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1YGpiCoSYrkNu_qTTgDf-mPirbKoNSRzEU7CrGoc2O2U/edit
General map with fine crafting materials locations
http://gw2cartographers.com/
Gathering node farm
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Node_farm

Gw2 Pricing sites (get the tp prices on the web)
http://www.gw2spidy.com/
http://www.guildwarstrade.com/search
http://tpcalc.com/

Places to catch the latest Gw2 news
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/
http://www.reddit.com/r/GuildWars2
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/

Feel free to ask any questions about what we talked about or how to make money from this podcast or questiosn or topics you want to hear for the NEXT podcast!

 

[Delduwath]

One thing I'd like to hear more detail about is deciding between selling a high level yellow on the trading post vs salvaging vs vendering.

You briefly mentioned that salvaging high level yellows is a good general practice, but there are certain ones I see selling on the trading post for well more than a few ectoplasm would sell for (which are likely being bought to actually be used) and there is certainly a cut off where you're not going to get an ectoplasm if you salvage it or it's just so unlikely that you'd get an ectoplasm on average it's better to vender it (I think this is related to the level; I've heard the number 72 thrown around). What's a good rule to maximize the profits on your high level yellows? (example: vender under lvl72, salvage if they do not sell on the trading post for more than three times the current ectoplasm price)

To expand a little you could talk expected value of salvaging. If you have a 30% of one ecto, 50% chance of two, or a 20% chance of three. At 18 silver per ecto you're expecting a 34.2 silver return on average from salvaging it (all made up numbers). So if it's on the trading post for 40 silver, even though you have a chance of getting 54 silver from three ecto, you're better off selling it on the trading post on average. I haven't done much salvaging, so even if you could give an antidote about your experiences in that context I'd appreciate it.

 

[TIG]

One thing I'd like to hear more detail about is deciding between selling a high level yellow on the trading post vs salvaging vs vendering.

...

To expand a little you could talk expected value of salvaging. If you have a 30% of one ecto, 50% chance of two, or a 20% chance of three. At 18 silver per ecto you're expecting a 34.2 silver return on average from salvaging it (all made up numbers). So if it's on the trading post for 40 silver, even though you have a chance of getting 54 silver from three ecto, you're better off selling it on the trading post on average. I haven't done much salvaging, so even if you could give an antidote about your experiences in that context I'd appreciate it.

Although I haven't come across the numbers of what percentage the ectos drop from yellows I do know that you have a chance to drop between 0 and 4 ectos for a level 74 or higher yellow item. I have heard 3 and 4 is incredibly rare and the percentage chance of 0 is anywhere between 20% and 50% but I don't think people have done enough testing to know for sure.

Right now I personally will try to sell the item if it is worth at least the going price of an ecto after the 15% cut. I see it as a guaranteed amount worth the price of an ecto if it sells (yellows almost always do). If it is worth less than an ecto then I will think about salvaging it. Until we get some solid numbers on the chance to get 0 or multiples I just sell the item.

When we get solid numbers on the ecto salvage percentage we can then use that to figure out a base price of the item over the long run compared to ectos. For example if there was a 30% chance to get 0 a 50% chance to get 1 and a 20% chance to get 2 (made up numbers) then we know over the long run 1 yellow would be worth 90% (50 + 20 + 20) of an ecto. You then multiply the ecto price by 90% (or multiply by .90) and then factor in the TP fees (divide by .85). You would then know your break even price and if the item is selling for more then sell it if the item is selling for less then salvage it.

PURELY HYPOTHETICAL NUMBERS TO SHOW THE MATH. Eg. ectos priced at 19s00c and our above percentage of 90% would mean 1900 x .90 then divide by .85. Any item selling for more than 20s11c would be sold on the ah.

 

[TIG]

I just wanna say thanks to tristan for having me on. And thanks for reining me in when I was getting long winded. I love this subject in games and will be glad to help out and answer any questions I can.

It looks like we have tons I didn't get to this time like farming, botting, lack of player to player trading, and how involved Anet is with the economy among other things. I'm sure any questions we get here will be fodder to go into part 2 when we do it.

 

[TIG]

Oct 1 patch notes are out and there is a change that effects something discussed in the podcast.

Master Weaponsmiths now sell their goods for coin instead of karma, as was originally intended.

This means the math I went through for the mystic salvage kits is wrong and they are closer in expense to master salvage kits. They are still cheaper if you buy a stack of 10 stones from the gem store and I highly recommend buying them over the master salvage kit because they stack to 250. It just means you buy them for gold instead of karma.

The new cost per salvage is 28c per salvage when 450 gems are 1g26s00c and you make 3 stacks. The master salvage kits which are identical in use but only stack to 25 are 61c per salvage.

 

[NeverMore]

Oct 1 patch notes are out and there is a change that effects something discussed in the podcast.

Master Weaponsmiths now sell their goods for coin instead of karma, as was originally intended.

This means the math I went through for the mystic salvage kits is wrong and they are closer in expense to master salvage kits. They are still cheaper if you buy a stack of 10 stones from the gem store and I highly recommend buying them over the master salvage kit because they stack to 250. It just means you buy them for gold instead of karma.

The new cost per salvage is 28c per salvage when 450 gems are 1g26s00c and you make 3 stacks. The master salvage kits which are identical in use but only stack to 25 are 61c per salvage.

I...... I'll do this exact thing in real life... but I'm glad you do it for me in GW2.

 

[Red Omen]

It releases on Wednesday.

Run through the recipe for a Mystic Salvage Kit for me again, if you would. 1 Blue, 1 Green, and 1 Yellow salvage kit plus 3 Mystic Forge Stones create one Mystic kit with 125 uses, right? And one stack of each of the three types of salvage kits plus how many Mystic Forge Stones create a stack of Mystic kits?

 

[TIG]

It releases on Wednesday.

Run through the recipe for a Mystic Salvage Kit for me again, if you would. 1 Blue, 1 Green, and 1 Yellow salvage kit plus 3 Mystic Forge Stones create one Mystic kit with 125 uses, right? And one stack of each of the three types of salvage kits plus how many Mystic Forge Stones create a stack of Mystic kits?

1 unused stack of blue, green and yellow salvage kits plus 3 mystic stones. Put them in the mystic forge and you get 1 stack of mystic salvage kits with 250 uses.

Since its cheaper per stone to buy 10 mystic forge stones its better to make 3 stacks of mystic salvage kits at once.

 

[Red Omen]

Thanks. Buying 250 yellow kits sounds pretty damn expensive, though.

 

[TIG]

you don't buy 250. you buy 1 blue salvage kit for 2s88c, 1 green salvage kit for 8s0c, and 1 yellow salvage kit for 15s36c. You put those unused salvage kits into the forge with 3 mystic forge stones that you get from the gem store and the forge spits out one mystic salvage kit with 250 uses.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Salvage_Kit

Seems to me that successful troll is successful, but I wanted to make sure I was clear about it for ya.

 

[Red Omen]

Oh, that's what you meant by stack. To me, stack = 250 of one item, which is confusing since I didn't think they stacked. Sorry I misunderstood.

 

[Linozz]

I still have trouble understanding why Mike proposes using Crude Salvage kit to salvage whites and white salvage items and saying it has the same chance in finding rarer materials than with Masterwork/Mystic. Guild wars 2 wiki says Crude salvage kits have 0 in finding rarer materials whereas masterwork/mystic have both 25%.The second thing i don't understand is why propose Masterwork/Mystic for salvaging 74+ yellow's instead of Black Lion in the case of glob of ectoplasm farming where masterwork/mystic have 25% of finding rarer material whereas Black Lion's have 50%. I didn't hear Mike taking under consideration that master/mystic has a 1/4 chance of finding globs whereas black lion have 1/2. These are my 2 points i wanted to share. Maybe Mike has calculated already all of this but i'd still like a calculated reply. Thanks in advance and keep up the good work with the Podcast!

 

[TIG]

Sorry if I wasn't the clearest on why I propose using those kits. Both of your points are correct. Black lion salvage kits have a better chance of getting rare mats and more ectos, crude salvage kits give almost no chance at rarer items.

The reason I propose crude salvage kits for salvage items is not because of the chance for rarer materials. Its because you will get the same amount of materials no matter what kit you use. On the highest level of salvage item you do have a chance of getting orichalcum ore, or gossamer scrap, ancient wood, or hardened leather. Since these tier 6 mats are the only significant jump in price over the previous tier, and the kits (especially black lion) are so much more expensive, the amount you make from using the yellow kits on salvage items is offset by the price of the kit themselves. I have only gotten 1 upgraded material on 8 (on average) salvages personally. It is more cost effective I've found to use the crude.

The other reason I propose using crude kits for salvage items is that you don't want higher tier items from the tier 1 items. You want the copper, jute, and rawhide leather. Not iron, wool, and thin leather.

The reason I propose mystic salvage kits over black lion kits for salvaging is a similar reason, cost of the kits. Black lion kits are only obtained from the black lion chests or bought for gems on the trading post. Here we run into opportunity cost since the gold price of gems has been so high that a black lion salvage kit is around 4s50c per salvage right now compared to the master salvage kit at 61c per salvage, and mystic salvage kits at 28c per salvage.

If you have black lion salvage kits from the chests you open from keys you get from game play and want to use them for getting ectos or higher level crafting mats then yes, that is the most efficient and no opportunity cost is lost in that instance. If you are paying gems (for keys or the kits themselves) to get the black lion salvage kits, the cost is much higher than mystic/master or crude kits.

The reason I didn't go into all this in the podcast is that I felt no need to elaborate for an extra 5 or 10 minutes when it was just easier and less confusing to say use these 2 for these applications. I hope this clarifies why I recommend using each. Thanks for the question.

 

[Linozz]

Crystal clear answer. The thing is i had been keeping all my black lion kits since i first found one. By the time i reached 80 and started farming globs i had 5 of them for a total of 125 stack. First, i salvaged all the exotics i got from the game that i didnt have any use for and then i started breaking yellow's with them. With 50% chance for a glob i got all the globs i needed to craft all my armor and weapons of choice and still have over 50 banked for further use. But now thing's have changed. I'm out of black lions and as you said they are really expensive. 300 gems is like 1.2g which comes down to 5s per salvage more or less. So, with my current gear set, when i go out farming i can get 20 yellows per day. Clearly i cannot keep on using black lions to salvage yellows as it's too costly. I would almost need a black lion salvage kit every day. I have already started using mustic salvage kits to break yellow's but i have one last question if u wouldn't mind. Shouldn't we all use mystic to salvage 80 level white armor/weapons/salvage items instead of crude? Did you mean to use the crude for ALL whites no matter the level or just the low tier 1-2? Because when salvaging a white 80 level armor/weapon/salvage item with mystic you can get up to 5 silk/leather, i've seen 2 hardened drop or 2 orichalcum. Again thanks in advance and let's all share knowledge and form a think tank to make this game even more fun

 

[TIG]

Quoted from the post below to fix my errors.

As for salvaging, I'd just like to point out that the higher "quality" of Salvage Kits doesn't increase the "level" of materials you get, only the rarity. Orichalcum and Gossamer aren't considered "rarer" by the game, merely common items. However, in practice, they're HARDER TO FIND. They are rare on a drop rate level, but not on an item-quality level.

Mystic Salvage Kits won't net you more Gossamer nor Orichalcum than a Crude Salvage Kit. They're only worth using on rares for Ectoplasms, which are considered rare+ materials.

This just strengthens my advice on using crude salvage kits to salvage all white salvage items.

 

[Threshka Oregrinder]

Opportunity cost has a component that's not related to material cost vs. crafted item cost. For instance, if "playing the Trading Post" for 30 minutes could grant you a net 3 gold profit, whereas farming Orr for 30 minutes granted you a 2 gold profit, then your opportunity cost is of 1 gold. You "lost" 1 gold by farming over playing the Trading Post.

Of course this oversimplification doesn't take into account other factors such as enjoyment or knowledge. You can know how to make the 3G per hour from playing the Trading Post and still rather farm Orr because you enjoy it more, for whatever reason you do. However, most people that are explicitly aiming to make gold as a priority above everything else are suffering opportunity costs they are NOT aware of.

As for salvaging, I'd just like to point out that the higher "quality" of Salvage Kits doesn't increase the "level" of materials you get, only the rarity. Orichalcum and Gossamer aren't considered "rarer" by the game, merely common items. However, in practice, they're HARDER TO FIND. They are rare on a drop rate level, but not on an item-quality level.

Mystic Salvage Kits won't net you more Gossamer nor Orichalcum than a Crude Salvage Kit. They're only worth using on rares for Ectoplasms, which are considered rare+ materials.

 

[TIG]

Thanks threshka, you are completely correct about the stuff I missed about opportunity cost. Time taken to farm (or play the TP) could be spent more profitably elsewhere and each person has to weigh that against what they prefer to do in game.

I was also mistaken on tier 6 mats being "rarer items" so it just strengthens my point on using the crude salvage kits on white salvage items. Thanks for the clarification.

Finally I have read that Anet is trying to fix the last in first out system with buy orders so they will be first in last out like it should be. No official word from Anet, but people who watch these things are seeing changes that point to this.

 

[Linozz]

Thanks again for helping me out with my silly questions! And sorry if that cost you buying stuff to test this out.

 

[TIG]

I will be clarifying this info on podcast 16, but here it is for those on the forums

just found a site that did 1500 tests each on cloth salvage items of top tier. He used crude, basic, fine, and mystic. Here are his findings.
-Chance to get a higher quality item means higher tier when talking about salvage items.
-The percentage chance to get higher quality items is multiplied by that items base chance to drop higher quality items.
Lord Signis found evidence that "items may have their own rare salvage modifier value other than 1. (ie .52 from the item and .25 from the salvage kit means salvaging will yield rare materials 13% of the time) Further testing is needed."

His findings on salvages:
Crude: 8.6% (1.3%)
Basic: 13.0% (1.5%)
Fine: 12.8% (1.5%)
Mystic: 13.0% (1.5%)

here is the post
http://inquisitive-myths.blogspot.se/2012/10/gw2-salvaging-scraps-which-kit-to-use.html

and a video explaining it


I now agree with the video's choices of:
Basic kits for every salvage item and any white named item that is worth salvaging (ie. tier 1 items that can turn to ore or cloth and are vendor priced less than 1.5 of that item)
Mystic kits for level 70 and above for the chance of globs of ectoplasm
Black Lion kits for any item that has an upgrade item you MUST have back, like expensive sigils/runes

-Do not salvage blue or green gear. Do not salvage yellows below level 70. They almost always are worth more coin by vendoring them and buying the materials from the TP if you need them.
-The only exception to this rule is tier 1 items that has a vendor price less than 1.5 times the price of the material it salvages into. Cloth and ore usually meet this threshold, sometimes leather, and almost never wood. Tier 1 usually cuts off around level 15.

 

[Danny Pendergrass]

Thx for the info, now I need to watch Part 2.