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Keleynal

Jesus Freak
This was something that came up in another thread, but it was off-topic. So putting it here

dainjre said:
There was this documentary on people who pan handle or beg for change. One of the people interviewed made serveral hundred dollars a day from spare change not to mention the disability he was getting every month. Homeless people are homeless because they want to be, not because they are poor.
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I think that's too much of a generalization. There are certainly beggars that act as you describe, but I think the vast majority of the TRULY homeless (vs those just pretending to be) are not in that situation by choice. Also, I don't think that the vast majority of those are on the streets begging. Other than a few drifters, I think beggars are too lazy to get govt assistance, scammers, unwilling to go to shelters, or just plain ignorant of what their options actually are. I have sympathy for the last group.

dainjre
 
Agreed, cherry picked cases of the most successful panhandlers are not indicative of the majority of those living in poverty. Well put.
 
Yeah i understand. We have a few different types of people here in raleigh and surrounding areas. We have the homeless, the scammers and the lazy as well. The scammers and the lazy are the ones i run into mostly. Near my apartment complex and work we have some pretty thick woods and this is where there is like an actual homeless society made up of about 12 people. One or two of those people will go pick a corner and try and get some money.

The scammers... oh the scammers.... Wal-mart parking lot is a prime example. You will get stopped going into or coming from your car at Wal-mart with some of the best drama stories around. If they applied to drama school they would be accepted with the best grant the school has. But back to the storym, i got stopped one day (I never give out cash but offer to pay for gas or food sometimes when i can) and got a sob story "My wife is pregnant and we are staying in a hotel, we need some money to put gas in our car to get home" I offer to pay for gas but they snottily refused. So i remembered reading an article in the news a few days prior about how soliciting for money requires a license. I have seen this couple here multiple times harassing people so i asked "Can i see your license to solicit money" I got the most dumbfounded look ever. So the man opens his wallet and i see a lot of cash and he quickly snaps it shut and asks if i am a cop. I say no but i can get one out here to help you if thats what you need. After that they stormed off yelling profanities at me and a few other things.

Another time you see people walking a corner, freshly shaved, $80 pairs of jeans and designer shoes. holding up signs asking for money. There is a bracket ring of people who do these corners bc one day its one person then the next day they switch.

I think i got a little off topic. Writing long is not my style and get easily sidetracked haha
 
My family and I volunteer at a homeless shelter. We cook usually around 30 turkeys and other various meats at our home in our deep pit for thanksgiving and christmas every year. I see people down and out, downtrodden and absolutely hopeless. These people are truly in need of help. I've also been on the other side of this, I've spent more time downtown with vagrants here than most. People sleeping in sleeping bags inside of things. Those people choose to be homeless. Many of them are able to and can find jobs but choose not to because they make more than enough money pan handling to get their fix and alchohol and that's all they need or want out of life. There are plenty of people who fake being homeless to make money as well. In my experience, people who don't want to live on the streets won't. The people who are homeless choose to be so. The real people in trouble go to shelters.
 
There are 3 types of homeless people, usually with a great deal of overlap. The system abusers (who may not even be homeless, collect from the government, and make good money with their little rehearsed sob stories), drug/alcohol abusers, and the ones that genuinely can not take care of themselves and may not even know hot to get help/collect benefits. That has been my experience based on my work as an EMT, in hospitals, and volunteering at needle exchanges. Anecdotal eveidence also exists to support my claim via my girlfriend who used to be a social worker.

Pro tip - never give homeless people money, offer them food instead or clothing/blankets/social work referalls. We would cut down on beggars in the form of fakers quite drastically if everyone practiced this. I knew someone that carried around social work information packets in her purse.
 
dainjre said:
My family and I volunteer at a homeless shelter. We cook usually around 30 turkeys and other various meats at our home in our deep pit for thanksgiving and christmas every year. I see people down and out, downtrodden and absolutely hopeless. These people are truly in need of help. I've also been on the other side of this, I've spent more time downtown with vagrants here than most. People sleeping in sleeping bags inside of things. Those people choose to be homeless. Many of them are able to and can find jobs but choose not to because they make more than enough money pan handling to get their fix and alchohol and that's all they need or want out of life. There are plenty of people who fake being homeless to make money as well. In my experience, people who don't want to live on the streets won't. The people who are homeless choose to be so. The real people in trouble go to shelters.
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If they make that much money, then why be homeless? Is it because they want to spend it all on alcohol rather than rent?

In Kansas City, there was a panhandler that was famous for asking for a "down payment on a cheeseburger." One day, an investigative reporter followed him and found that he had a nice car and a nice house. He just pretended to be homeless for the tax free income.

That makes more sense to me than actually being homeless by choice. It seems like there would be something else going on there, like mental illness or disability.
 
Keleynal said:
If they make that much money, then why be homeless? Is it because they want to spend it all on alcohol rather than rent?

In Kansas City, there was a panhandler that was famous for asking for a "down payment on a cheeseburger." One day, an investigative reporter followed him and found that he had a nice car and a nice house. He just pretended to be homeless for the tax free income.

That makes more sense to me than actually being homeless by choice. It seems like there would be something else going on there, like mental illness or disability.
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Back in Greenville my dad had a nice corner location for his shop and there was always a woman on the corner who would ask for money. My dad one day decided to just go to the street and watch where she went. (On the other side of the road is a mall and you can see parking from there) He saw her walk to the mall and get into a nice NEW BMW. He called the cops the next day to escort her off of the corner
 
This isn't true in every country, but in America, I don't think there is any good reason to beg on the streets. There are tons of charities in every state that are set up to meet those needs, and that's in addition to govt programs. The only reason you wouldn't go there is because you don't want any accountability for whether or not you actually need the money or how you are going to spend the money. Another possibility is that they are insane, which is actually a fair percentage of the homeless, unfortunately.

I sometimes buy beggars food because I am a sucker and it's hard for me to say no if I can easily fulfill their request without it creating hardship for me. I do believe I still receive the spiritual rewards that come with generosity, even if a particular gift is wasted. I definitely devote the majority of my charity to established and trustworthy organizations, like my local church and the Red Cross.
 
Crake said:
Pro tip - never give homeless people money, offer them food instead or clothing/blankets/social work referalls. We would cut down on beggars in the form of fakers quite drastically if everyone practiced this. I knew someone that carried around social work information packets in her purse.
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Unfortunately, this isn't always enough. There was a family that came to my parent's church. They were recovering drug addicts with 5 kids. We would deliver groceries to them a couple times a month. Turns out, they sold a lot of the groceries on the street for drug money rather than feeding their kids. Disgusting people like that unfortunately exist.
 
Keleynal said:
If they make that much money, then why be homeless? Is it because they want to spend it all on alcohol rather than rent?

In Kansas City, there was a panhandler that was famous for asking for a "down payment on a cheeseburger." One day, an investigative reporter followed him and found that he had a nice car and a nice house. He just pretended to be homeless for the tax free income.

That makes more sense to me than actually being homeless by choice. It seems like there would be something else going on there, like mental illness or disability.
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Yes, people choose to not pay rent and live on the street so they can afford alcohol (or meth here in kern county ca). Also like people were saying, its fairly commonplace for people to fake being homeless in the US just to make money, there are tons of documentaries about it. Lastly the people with disabilities and illnesses still collect their checks and cash them but choose to remain with no place to live after walking out of the bank with thousands of dollars every month (my ex works at a bank downtown she does this for them all the time). They usually possess the means to not be on the streets but for whatever reason don't get their own place because of one of two things, either they enjoy living on the streets or they would rather spend their money on their vice of choice than have responsibility for themselves.
 
Keleynal said:
Unfortunately, this isn't always enough. There was a family that came to my parent's church. They were recovering drug addicts with 5 kids. We would deliver groceries to them a couple times a month. Turns out, they sold a lot of the groceries on the street for drug money rather than feeding their kids. Disgusting people like that unfortunately exist.
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Well, nothing will ever be enough as long as humans remain.. humans. Still, better then the alternative imo.
 
Crake said:
Well, nothing will ever be enough as long as humans remain.. humans. Still, better then the alternative imo.
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Space Viking Ninjas > Humans

My first contact with a "homeless" person was in Japan two years ago. I don´t know what´s different in Germany, and I know that we have beggars in Germany, but the amount seems to be pretty low (or the police is trying to get them of the street quickly(?).
Anyway in Japan you are not allowed to beg, so they just lie down, and usually have a cap in front of them. No signs, no begging. I frequently gave my change away, because you I didn´t get used to japanese coins anyway.
Also a japanese friend of mine told me, that quite some people who do not earn a lot of money life in Internet Cafes. She did not recommend me to try it, but I did it anyway. Probably the worst night of my life.
If somebody wants to read more about this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_cafe_refugee
 
dainjre said:
Yes, people choose to not pay rent and live on the street so they can afford alcohol (or meth here in kern county ca). Also like people were saying, its fairly commonplace for people to fake being homeless in the US just to make money, there are tons of documentaries about it. Lastly the people with disabilities and illnesses still collect their checks and cash them but choose to remain with no place to live after walking out of the bank with thousands of dollars every month (my ex works at a bank downtown she does this for them all the time). They usually possess the means to not be on the streets but for whatever reason don't get their own place because of one of two things, either they enjoy living on the streets or they would rather spend their money on their vice of choice than have responsibility for themselves.
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Addiction isn't as simple as choosing to be. There are a lot of mitigating circumstances that lead to addiction as well as very complex psychological reasonings. If it were as easy and choose don't choose I think we would probably have less of both. And each group would be happy with their current state of living.

I have struggled with addiction be it a job, lifestyle, smoking, etc. it is not as cut and dry. But unless you take meth or know someone close who has, you really will always default to "choice". It is not a healthy way to look at it and unfortunately instead of treatment available, we offer jail.

Our government is a narrow minded group of junkies themselves. Addicted to decisions and judgements. But unable to associate a meth addict with a work aholic or over eater.

To get better yes someone needs to want it. But they also need help with being able to follow through because it will be the hardest thing they ever so from that point and till the end of their life. It doesn't just go away because they will it so.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
tr1age said:
Addiction isn't as simple as choosing to be. There are a lot of mitigating circumstances that lead to addiction as well as very complex psychological reasonings. If it were as easy and choose don't choose I think we would probably have less of both. And each group would be happy with their current state of living.

I have struggled with addiction be it a job, lifestyle, smoking, etc. it is not as cut and dry. But unless you take meth or know someone close who has, you really will always default to "choice". It is not a healthy way to look at it and unfortunately instead of treatment available, we offer jail.

Our government is a narrow minded group of junkies themselves. Addicted to decisions and judgements. But unable to associate a meth addict with a work aholic or over eater.

To get better yes someone needs to want it. But they also need help with being able to follow through because it will be the hardest thing they ever so from that point and till the end of their life. It doesn't just go away because they will it so.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I want to add that everybody has at least one addiction. Mine is food and Video games.
 
tr1age said:
But unless you take meth or know someone close who has, you really will always default to "choice". It is not a healthy way to look at it and unfortunately instead of treatment available, we offer jail.
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My mom, whom I love very much, was addicted to Meth for 4 years. She chose to get help. They do offer a lot of programs here for that kind of thing and alcohol abuse. I still say it is their choice whether or not they want to get help.
 
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