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The circus of tolerance

K

Keleynal

Jesus Freak
This is why we can't have nice things.

Groups in Florida got wind that there was a nativity display in the capital building. Of course, some atheists cannot stand the thought of anything Christian going unchallenged, so they put up some posters proclaiming their own reasons for the season. Then a guy erected a Festivus pole, complete with hanging beer cans. All this has culminated in the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster erecting their own tasteful dispay.
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Florida did finally draw a line when a Satanic group tried to get a depiction of Satan falling from heaven approved.
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Don't get me wrong, I find this situation totally hilarious. But what is wrong with people? Why can't people see something that's not 100% in line with their beliefs and just say "Good for them" or "That's interesting." Instead, they feel the need to try to cheapen or downplay others' beliefs by putting ridiculous, meaningless things beside ones that people actually care about.

I have no problem with people celebrating their belief systems, but make no mistake here, the ONLY reason the atheists, satanists, pastafarians, and Festivus guy are making these displays is because they wanted to mock Christianity, not from any heartfelt belief of their own or wanting to share warm feelings and faith (or lack thereof) with others (http://www.tallahassee.com/article/20131211/POLITICSPOLICY/131211005/Festivus-pole-display-Capitol). In the name of tolerance, they cannot tolerate a Christian display. If they can't get it taken down, they will mock it with their stupid, tongue-in-cheek crap that makes the Florida capital building into a chintzy circus.

I support the notion that government cannot promote a religion or establish a religion. Is having a nativity scene a promotion? Not at all. No one is falling on their knees before it and converting to Christianity. Are the faiths of atheism and pastafarian so weak that they cannot handle seeing a simple Chistmas scene without it causing conniptions in their belief systems? They need to grow up.
 
ThatOneGuy said:
I love that the other displays got approved to be shown.
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I understand why they were. I just wish they hadn't made them look so awful. The pole made of beer cans shouldn't have been approved. I understand the "free speech" point they are trying to make, but they should have more pride and higher standards in the stuff they allow in the capitol.
 
Kel, here's where I have to respectfully disagree. The build you speak of is a public one, right? As in, taxpayers are the ones who paid for it to be built, and pay for it to be maintained, right?

Then you shouldn't be allowed to put up a Nativity scene, or a bible quote, or a Pastafarian display, or ANYTHING that supports ANY religion unless the public who pay for the building is 100% behind the idea. Otherwise, that's government promoting and influencing religion. Which is wrong.
 
PsionicFox said:
Kel, here's where I have to respectfully disagree. The build you speak of is a public one, right? As in, taxpayers are the ones who paid for it to be built, and pay for it to be maintained, right?

Then you shouldn't be allowed to put up a Nativity scene, or a bible quote, or a Pastafarian display, or ANYTHING that supports ANY religion unless the public who pay for the building is 100% behind the idea. Otherwise, that's government promoting and influencing religion. Which is wrong.
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I feels this way as well. I think their rebellious display was an attempt to point out the ridiculousness you must accept if you don't separate church and state. It's easy to say atheists are being absurd and distasteful when you are on the other side of the equation. It can be frustrating to be constantly reminded that there is an undertone of religion in all aspects of our government despite the whole 'seperation' ideology we were supposedly founded on. If someone in the office wants to slap some christmas lore in their cubicle, then by all means.. but front and center? It's like.. 'hey, non-christians.. we own your asses. don't forget it."

I mean, how would you feel if we were originally founded as a muslim country and christians were the minority? Would you be fighting to erect nativity scenes if they were constantly putting their symbolism in all the government offices? Would that be fair?
 
I think the important part of this story that everyone's missing is that the Pastafarians are secretly trying to get their noodley appendages in our government.
 
I want to take a moment to appreciate the beauty of that Satanic Temple display. You're gonna have to fill me in on making a @Joof display, @dainjre. I haven't met him yet!
 
sweetloaf said:
I want to take a moment to appreciate the beauty of that Satanic Temple display. You're gonna have to fill me in on making a @Joof display, @dainjre. I haven't met him yet!
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A rakishly handsome heavily muscled man with a squid on his head fighting a dragon while armed with a shotgun, is what his effigy would look like.
 
Crake said:
I feels this way as well. I think their rebellious display was an attempt to point out the ridiculousness you must accept if you don't separate church and state. It's easy to say atheists are being absurd and distasteful when you are on the other side of the equation. It can be frustrating to be constantly reminded that there is an undertone of religion in all aspects of our government despite the whole 'seperation' ideology we were supposedly founded on. If someone in the office wants to slap some christmas lore in their cubicle, then by all means.. but front and center? It's like.. 'hey, non-christians.. we own your asses. don't forget it."



I mean, how would you feel if we were originally founded as a muslim country and christians were the minority? Would you be fighting to erect nativity scenes if they were constantly putting their symbolism in all the government offices? Would that be fair?
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I kind of feel like I'd have more power if I was in the minority in this country, to be quite honest.
 
edit: just to point out i did not read all the replies under the main post before writing my own. just saying because i feel i may have covered previously discussed issues. XD

sigh. sorry if what follows offends anyone but it has to be said. bare in mind this is only my opinion.

i find that atheists that declare their non-belief and ridicule the religious exhuberently for their beliefs are along the same lines as homophobes or racists who are in denial and declare that how can they be homophobe/racist because they know someone who is gay/not of their nationality.
It makes it sound like they are so scared of believing in something and being wrong that they feel if they don't deride others or declare their non-belief then they will be perseived as being religious.
This may sound confusing but it makes perfect sense in my head so apologies.

That being said im not saying people are wrong to not believe or state that they are atheist just that the over-flaunting of it just as bad as so called "bible-bashers" except they are hitting you with science books or something.

I think its a good thing displays other than nativity ones were allowed but people wanting to submit things just for the sake of it and more likely to redicule others is just petty and childish and should not have been allowed. the more serious ones fair enough. lets say if an atheist, yes i realise i am using them alot as my example, wanted to display something depicting how they perseive christmas and its meaning great, but a beer can pole and a spaghetti creature? don't think so.

although yes religion and state should be seperate just like corporations should be. people also need to take into account it still does not stop a country being "christian" or "muslim" as this is based on the majority belief of the population as well as things such as traditions. This is something i feel people should except and abide by peacefully instead of rebelling just because the national relegion does not match their own.
This is something that annoys me about life in britain, too much political correctness being taken too far. its the festive season not christmas season because what if we offend other reigions. bleh, if they are offended it by this then a) they are seriously crazy idiots and b) they can always not join in the flipping celebrations. just because we call it a christmas holiday does not mean you have to follow and believe in it in the christian way.

if one were to try this in another country such as one of the islamic faith you would at best get laughed at and derided. and at worse....well they are not exactly the laxest of countries in general when it comes to punishments.

anyway rant over. i hope everyone regardless of their beliefs or non-beliefs enjoys the holiday season and gets to spend time with their family and loved ones.

wish you all good fortune and happiness for the future.

acceptance isn't defeat, tolerance isn't apathy, understanding is not betrayal, peace is not a dream.
 
You're perfectly correct on your point about "extremists" (I don't know what else to call them). Not all Christians demand religion is taught in public schools or think being gay should be corrected just as not all atheists demand all religion be out of any sort of public eye and think that Christians are stupid hicks. Most reasonable people should realize that. I'm an atheist and I don't care where you put a tree with lights on it.
 
Valikar said:
This is something that annoys me about life in britain, too much political correctness being taken too far. its the festive season not christmas season because what if we offend other reigions. bleh, if they are offended it by this then a) they are seriously crazy idiots and b) they can always not join in the flipping celebrations. just because we call it a christmas holiday does not mean you have to follow and believe in it in the christian way.
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We had the same discussion in Germany recently and the German Muslim Committee said that they do not want Christmas taken away from them. A lot of their children like to go to the christmas mass into church.
 
Euchale said:
We had the same discussion in Germany recently and the German Muslim Committee said that they do not want Christmas taken away from them. A lot of their children like to go to the christmas mass into church.
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It's amazing how many regular people really don't want to be "protected" and insulated from other beliefs, yet extreme groups will attack everyone in a misguided attempt to keep them from getting challenged or questioning their beliefs.

@Valikar, I disagree that America can be regarded as a Christian nation. I think we were there once, but we are definitely post-Christian at this point. Not that Christianity was ever established, but for a lot of our history, people shared a lot of common beliefs and moral values. That gave the country a lot of unity. We're losing a lot of the unity that comes from a common belief system now, along with core family values and increasingly liberal cultural norms. If Christians can't find a way to take back the culture, then they are going to have to live in the new environment that (ironically) doesn't have a lot of tolerance for traditional, Christian values.

Christians in America got very used to having their way, their values accepted without question. Now that everything is being questioned, the church will have to get stronger or become completely marginalized.
 
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