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The holy Trinity

If you have a toon that is only good for buffing, you end up like the Pallies in WoW before they were actually made useful for raids. They all had to hangout outside of the instance and buff everyone after wipes. Unless the buffs are absolutely indispensable and have a duration that's shorter than a boss fight, buff bots are not going to be in group in a min/max situation.

GW2 had combos like you described where shooting through a fire aoe added fire to the attack, or melee could charge through it and maybe get a fire shield. I thought that was one of the more clever things GW2 did well, and I would love to see that kind of synergy with Wildstar's attacks. It seems that the combat system would be ideally suited for it.

Check out this old school bad ass synergy:

 
The other thing to consider is how often you are going to be able to change out these abilities. Can they be done on the fly between encounters? Will I need to go back to town to respec? Is there going to be a cooldown/cost associated?
 
Simpwn said:
The other thing to consider is how often you are going to be able to change out these abilities. Can they be done on the fly between encounters? Will I need to go back to town to respec? Is there going to be a cooldown/cost associated?
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true, I haven't seen any info released on that front.
 
ThatOneGuy said:
true, I haven't seen any info released on that front.
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I'm hoping NOT to be able to respec on the fly. I want choices to be meaningful and have consequences. I hated how you could change abilities even during combat in Diablo 3. You dropped some nice exp/gold/magic find buffs for it and triggered a cd, but that's it.
 
Euchale said:
Dear everyone,

I´ve heard a lot of discussion on trinity (Tank, Heal, DPS) in MMORPGs. Now I wonder, what is your opinion on this? Also what are your favorite group compositions.

I really like trinity, because if everybody can do everything it means that nobody is special. A good alternative to the 5 -man 1 Tank, 1 heal, 3 DPS would be replacing one DPS with a class that is buffer/debuffer. Also if a game forces me to, I could life without tanks, so all DPS has to evade attacks from enemys and healer have to heal if someone fails.
Perfect group size for me is 6 people. I really liked it in AoC when you could decide to either bring an additional tank or heal or DPS with you depended on what is needed. We´ve also been running around in 2 Tank, 2 Heal, 2 DPS groups. This made grouping easier if you happen to have a friend who wants to play the same class as you (this happens to me a lot).
Now let´s hear you opinion on this.
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I didn't really appreciate the HT until I played GW2. As others have said, for solo play it was awesome but the dynamic got murky once you started to group up. TBH, I'd even venture to add a 4th class in there (utility) and call it the Holy Box (giggity). The utility class is typically designed for initiating/reducing crowd control and overall chaos. They're particularly effective in PvP, but have limited use in most raiding situations.

As far as group comp, it really depends on what we're planning on doing, but my overall favorite in general is a tank, healer, 2 DPS and 1 utility.
 
Sasquatauch said:
I didn't really appreciate the HT until I played GW2. As others have said, for solo play it was awesome but the dynamic got murky once you started to group up. TBH, I'd even venture to add a 4th class in there (utility) and call it the Holy Box (giggity). The utility class is typically designed for initiating/reducing crowd control and overall chaos. They're particularly effective in PvP, but have limited use in most raiding situations.

As far as group comp, it really depends on what we're planning on doing, but my overall favorite in general is a tank, healer, 2 DPS and 1 utility.
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I think pure utility is better suited to turn based games, like D&D. In real time games, it's just not efficient to have a group member who only contributes meaningfully at the beginning of a pull or in specific situations. I think that's why they tend to spread out CC, buffs, and debuffs among several classes instead of having a couple that are dedicated to it.
 
Keleynal said:
I'm hoping NOT to be able to respec on the fly. I want choices to be meaningful and have consequences. I hated how you could change abilities even during combat in Diablo 3. You dropped some nice exp/gold/magic find buffs for it and triggered a cd, but that's it.
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If you are locked into your choices then I want a dual spec type system so I can at least have 1 other spec type available to me on the fly. Since I usually play as a healer I don't want to get locked into using a hybrid spec all the time.
 
Simpwn said:
If you are locked into your choices then I want a dual spec type system so I can at least have 1 other spec type available to me on the fly. Since I usually play as a healer I don't want to get locked into using a hybrid spec all the time.
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I think dual spec that you could switch to out of combat is fine. Also, I wouldn't want it to be FOREVER. Otherwise a patch will come and screw you over. But it should cost enough to discourage use all the time and only be done in certain places, like at trainers.
 
Keleynal said:
I think pure utility is better suited to turn based games, like D&D. In real time games, it's just not efficient to have a group member who only contributes meaningfully at the beginning of a pull or in specific situations. I think that's why they tend to spread out CC, buffs, and debuffs among several classes instead of having a couple that are dedicated to it.
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Normally the utility guys will also DPS and/or heal as well. Think of Shaman in WoW. We rolled 3 utility/DPS Shaman in our open world PvP group and would regularly take down level 60's at 35 and turned the tide of many BG's. Think of them as a jack-of-all-trades class in that they add mortar to the bricks of the HT.
 
Sasquatauch said:
Normally the utility guys will also DPS and/or heal as well. Think of Shaman in WoW. We rolled 3 utility/DPS Shaman in our open world PvP group and would regularly take down level 60's at 35 and turned the tide of many BG's. Think of them as a jack-of-all-trades class in that they add mortar to the bricks of the HT.
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WoW did well at first in keeping the hybrids more distinct, but eventually they decided that they should be able to heal or dps just as well as a "pure" class. That killed off a lot of their allure for me.
 
i for one can not have it any other way really.... otherwise no one can pull the aggro from me lol. i also for one love dedicated healers (have played one) and understand how important it is to stay out of harms way or to light DPS and try not to get aggro. GW2 was fun just got to frustrating for me not beingable to just heal efficiently.
 
Keleynal said:
I think dual spec that you could switch to out of combat is fine. Also, I wouldn't want it to be FOREVER. Otherwise a patch will come and screw you over. But it should cost enough to discourage use all the time and only be done in certain places, like at trainers.
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I disagree with the cost. You should be able to test out specs before you buy them (on a scarecrow/dummy/whatever). Then a high cost is fine with me. I just hate it, if I have to look up what the perfect spec for me is, because I cannot afford switching specs until I find the right one.
 
Euchale said:
I disagree with the cost. You should be able to test out specs before you buy them (on a scarecrow/dummy/whatever). Then a high cost is fine with me. I just hate it, if I have to look up what the perfect spec for me is, because I cannot afford switching specs until I find the right one.
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I am up in the air on that. I am not sure if I am for or against "best" specs. I like it because its easier to balance the game around. I dislike it because then someone else is telling me how to play. I like having specs that are better or worse for different situations and trying to find a balance between them to have a good all around spec.
 
Simpwn said:
I am up in the air on that. I am not sure if I am for or against "best" specs. I like it because its easier to balance the game around. I dislike it because then someone else is telling me how to play. I like having specs that are better or worse for different situations and trying to find a balance between them to have a good all around spec.
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I am against "best" specs. No matter what game it is. I just love trying out different things. For example different types of damage.
 
Euchale said:
I am against "best" specs. No matter what game it is. I just love trying out different things. For example different types of damage.
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That becomes a definition. What is the "best" and in what context? There has to be a way for you to be the best in the way you want, otherwise there is no point really. Let's all do mediocre at everything, then all of the encounters are then, mediocre. Your spec could be the "best" at being Jack-of-all-Trades, or best CC, or best tank spec, best heal spec, best dps spec - it is the very nature of it as far as I am concerned.

This also leads to which class you are and it's own combat mechanics. To me, there is a lot going on here.
 
I'm sure he means cookie cutter builds that mathematically are the best at dps, or hps, or mitigation or whatever. What I like about WS is that you need to aim and move, so there will be no way to execute the mathematical best build.
 
ThatOneGuy said:
I'm sure he means cookie cutter builds that mathematically are the best at dps, or hps, or mitigation or whatever. What I like about WS is that you need to aim and move, so there will be no way to execute the mathematical best build.
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Awww. But its fun to dumpster all over people who are slaves to the "OVB" with your own flavour.
 
ThatOneGuy said:
I'm sure he means cookie cutter builds that mathematically are the best at dps, or hps, or mitigation or whatever. What I like about WS is that you need to aim and move, so there will be no way to execute the mathematical best build.
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There could still be something that is mathematically best. The difference would be whether or not is executable. Players could have wildly different dps with the same build because of skill. That was true in WoW also. Even though everyone who knew what they were doing specced and geared the same, some still couldn't produce.
 
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