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To spank or not to spank

B

Baldoraxx

Internalizing Master Of Casual
So i just read an article on Yahoo(Yes i know the worlds greatest place to get news*sarcastic voice*) titled "No spank you."

So i believe that there is a need for spanking. When/if a parent decides to spank their child is completely their business. spanking is a good way to get a childs attention when verbal use will not.

Some people think spanking in itself is abuse. I don't believe so, i believe it is redirection for something wrong or DANGEROUS. It is a form of discipline. Beating a child and punishing a child with a swat on the butt are two different things.

Also, if i decide to discipline my child in a supermarket, do not come and tell me i am abusing my child and that i need to stop. MIND YOUR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS.My child is getting punished for something that they did wrong. If you wait the 20 minutes and spank them in the car then they don't know what they did wrong.

So do you think spanking is a good idea or not for a way of disciplining a child?

That is the question.



Below is the article. There are some really good comments at the bottom.
http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/no-spank-harmful-impact-physically-disciplining-kids-141400818.html
 
Bald, I love you, but if you are going to post a "rant" and not just an "all the things" post, please try your best to A: Capitalize B: Punctuate C: Space things out D: Have a clear stance on what it is you are trying to rant about. This opens it up for others to chime in and talk.
 
I thought this was going in a different direction..I have nothing to say about it in this context.
 
I think spanking children is a necessary form of discipline. However, spanking =/= beating. I got the wooden spoon or belt when I was bad, not often, but it was enough.
I hate when parents put their kids in 'time out'. That is stupid to me... (sorry anyone who does that, but yeah). A pop on the behind with the intention to smart, not destroy, can be just enough deterrent from making the same mistake again. Granted, I am not a parent, and when I would get spanked, I would laugh which pissed my Dad off. (Couldn't help it, nervous laughter, it still hurt!)

The problem with parents spanking too hard is that in the heat of the moment when they are pissed they don't always moderate their force or hostility. I think that is the 'damage of spanking' the article references. You have to be in control of your own emotions before you discipline others.
 
The verdict among scientists is pretty clear. Spanking carries the implicit message that physical violence, however mild, is an acceptable way to influence other people. Discipline is important, but find ways other than hitting to get the message across.
 
Red Omen said:
The verdict among scientists is pretty clear. Spanking carries the implicit message that physical violence, however mild, is an acceptable way to influence other people. Discipline is important, but find ways other than hitting to get the message across.
Click to expand...

The only message it carried for me in to adulthood is that I thoroughly enjoy spankings, and giving them. TMI? Spank your kids... it will improve their eventual sex lives. :p

Addendum: TMI in this case could mean either 'too much information' or 'the moral is'. You pick.[DOUBLEPOST=1367540721,1367540568][/DOUBLEPOST]Attempt to derail this thread:
 
Kismet said:
I think spanking children is a necessary form of discipline. However, spanking =/= beating. I got the wooden spoon or belt when I was bad, not often, but it was enough.
Click to expand...
My mom used a fly swatter. It stung like hell, but never did any damage. Hardly even left us red. You just couldn't get any power behind it.
flyswatter_300.jpg

I hate when parents put their kids in 'time out'. That is stupid to me... (sorry anyone who does that, but yeah).
Click to expand...
Time out has been proven to be the most effective punishment for kids under a certain age. I think its 3 or so. The reason is the way our cognitive reasoning develops. Under a certain age their whole world exists in what they sense (see, hear, smell, etc). They want to be a part of everything that is going on and if you take that away they think they will never have the chance again to do that thing.

The other use of time out is to stop bad behavior from continuing. It is somewhat effective for older kids used this way but it isn't that useful for actually fixing bad behavior in older kids. For young kids its a bad consequence, for older kids its not.

Once they get past the stage where time outs are "the end of the world" I believe spanking is effective. It shouldn't be the only tool in the shed, but it should not be ignored either.

Red Omen said:
The verdict among scientists is pretty clear. Spanking carries the implicit message that physical violence, however mild, is an acceptable way to influence other people. Discipline is important, but find ways other than hitting to get the message across.
Click to expand...
This may be true, but the world is a violent place. Unfortunately violence and the threat of violence is a valid way to solve problems at times. Most of the time the idea that you are capable of violent retaliation will stop many people from taking more than if you weren't taught that violence is an answer.
 
Violence can certainly be an effective tool in the right circumstances, but young children lack the capacity to apply it judiciously. I'd recommend waiting until they're older before adding it to their toolbox.
 
As a parent, I've found that it can be tough to choose the best punishment in every situation. As much as possible, I try to make the punishment fit the crime.

Child is screaming at dinner? The child goes to their room until they are done. Since they wasted all their time crying, they have to eat dinner while the rest of us get dessert. This style of punishment works better when the child is older and can make better connections between the crime and punishment.

The problem with spanking is that it is very easy to misuse. Spanking can be a very quick, lazy way for a parent to get a desired result without actually teaching anything or expending much energy. A child that is over spanked learns to fear the parent and hide the behavior. It's punish the bad, but without the presence of good. Spanking should never be done immediately or on the spot. That's striking out of anger or frustration, a very bad example to set. It also should not be used as a last resort. The child needs to know that certain behaviors, such as lying or hitting others results in a spanking the first time, every time. The trap is to become a threatening, repeating parent. "If youdothat one more time..." Bad idea. The child learns how far they can push you before you really mean it. It also leads to inconsistency. On a bad day, two times might set you off, on others days you may tolerate 5 or 6 times. This confuses the child and they don't know where the line is.

First time obedience is essential for kids to learn. How many times do you want to have to tell your kid to stop before they run into traffic? How many times will their boss tell them not to steal? We do our kids a disservice when we threaten and repeat. A child that knows their parent means what they say and follows through is an obedient child. It's hard as a parent. You love the kid and punishing them hurts, but true love is putting their need to learn before my need to be liked.

Ideally, a good parent will be able to train a child such that once they are a bit older, spanking is no longer needed and "fit the crime" punishments are much more effective. Older kids also have more to lose. Loss of phone, loss of tv, loss of sports event, and so on. Of course, the true ideal is a child that needs very little punishment past the early years, but lets be realistic here.

Being a parent is extremely tough. I highly encourage any one even THINKING about it to read books and take classes. It's kind of a big deal and not something you want to stumble your way through.
 
Since 2000, by law, corporal punishment in the home isn't allowed here in Germany: "Children have the right to a non-violent upbringing. Corporal punishment, psychological injuries and other humiliating measures are prohibited."
And I must say: Good riddance.

Reading this thread and a few others here at TAB show me that there is more of a cultural gap between Germany and the USA than I knew!
 
I definitely do not view spankings as corporal punishment, or even violence. Hell, some verbal discipline is far worse in my opinion Again I think it goes back to controlling your own emotions when administering discipline. In my own family we received the occasional spanking growing up, when it was deserved, and my other three siblings and myself never hated or threatened our parrents for it. on the contrary, we had a very healthy respect for their authority. We never ended up delinquennts, or felt disadvantaged in any way due to spankings.

It disturbs me much more to think how our governments and society has infringed on our personal rights by taking away a parents ability to admonish their children without fear of it being dubbed child abuse. Being put in a corner isnt discipline to me. it is being ignored, and in a classroom, humiliated.

We can agree to disagree. It is the extremes of discipline that parents should be educated about, and aware of, when they choose to implement it. But I do feel it should be their choice. Hell, circumcision is more cruel imo than a spanking, but that is for a separate discussion.
 
You're looking at it from a best case scenario, where the parents are educated and mentally stable enough to use spankings as a "healthy" way to discipline a child. (Though one might argue that an educated parent wouldn't have to resort to spanking in the first place.)

The reality is that there are far too many parents out there who don't fit the bill. Your "spanking" has an imaginary line that determines whether the spanking is "healthy" or not, but there are plenty of parents whose rule of thumb I would not trust. Too many of them "spank" because they feel powerless, because they can not keep their emotions in check, or they beat their children as a form of stress relief. From my point of view this is less about taking away a parent's ability to discipline their child physically, it's about protecting those children who need protection from their abusive parents.

On a side note, until a few decades ago wife beating was still tolerated. New laws were made to protect women from their abusive husbands, and I'm sure a few gentlemen were dismayed about this and argued that wife beatings should still be allowed within reason.
I'd rather say "No, it's not tolerated, period" than "Sure dude, it's all good as long as you keep it healthy!"

But yes, we may have to agree to disagree.
 
Beating children is just as illegal in America as it is in Germany. I'd venture to guess that Germany's no spanking law has not stopped child abuse from occurring, since abusers ignore the law in every civilized society. But that law also criminalized the portion of your population that was using it in a proper and loving manner. I hope no such law is ever passed here. It's a redundancy. The only effect is to limit the choices and parenting tools of families, it does nothing additional to keep children safe.
 
Keleynal said:
Beating children is just as illegal in America as it is in Germany. I'd venture to guess that Germany's no spanking law has not stopped child abuse from occurring, since abusers ignore the law in every civilized society. But that law also criminalized the portion of your population that was using it in a proper and loving manner. I hope no such law is ever passed here. It's a redundancy. The only effect is to limit the choices and parenting tools of families, it does nothing additional to keep children safe.
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It does if, as the study I linked shows, spanking children exacerbates their behavioral problems.
 
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