Transgender and Dating as a straight male

[tr1age]

So this isn't really a rant but I wanted it to fall under the rant rules for discussion:

If you were to meet a transgender male, were attracted to them as a straight male, would you consider dating them?

There are a few things to keep in mind obviously:

• Cannot have children without adoption
• The effort it takes the transgendered male to maintain the feminine look through drug therapies and operations.
• Post and pre op
• Social judgements

I personally have always found transsexual men to be somewhat attractive in the right situation. I know, getting right out there here. But so what, a human is a human and I will say if I am attracted to them regardless.

For me it is about being feminine. I am a straight male, and have tons of gay friends that I have chatted with about this. I find some transsexuals to be extremely attractive, especially if they are post op. Dunno maybe a fetish?

But what would you do? I still am not sure if I was faced with the situation, I know OkCupid likes to match me a lot with transgendered. I don't know if I would hold it against them on day on the fact that they are actually born male and get tired of the "fakeness" of putting so much effort into appearance. Obviously they want to be who they want to be. What kind of people date transgender people? What kind of people do Transgender people date?

I find it all very fascinating.

With the whole Kaitlyn Jenner thing it has apparently been a trendy topic lately too so I figured I would bring it up here to be discussed.

 

[Milleuda]

First, thank you tr1age for being open to the discussion. Sexuality is rather complicated, and it took years for me to grasp it (even now I am still learning).

I started volunteering at an LGBTQIA youth support center a few years ago. They made all volunteers go through an 8 hour training session, which included this image:

Basically, there are 4 ways to describe the blanket term we call "sexuality": gender identity, gender expression, biological sex, and attraction. Within each dimension there are many ways to describe and categorize, which leads to many combinations of someone's "sexuality."

Mainstream culture is most familiar with "attraction" since this is where straight and gay/lesbian come from. We are starting to talk more openly about "gender identity" with the transexual topics of late.

I can only speak for myself, and my answer will be from the perspective of whether I would find a transgendered female to male post-op attractive. Here goes:

• I am attracted to qualities I perceive and associate with masculinity. This means they have to be a "man" in gender and express themselves as masculine
• I am a male attracted to men/males/masculinity, making me identify myself as gay
• The transgendered comes into play for me with the biological aspect. They were born female and identified as male. My attraction to this person would come down to the expression of masculinity

To spin this a different way, I am not attracted to biologically born men who are "femme" or feminine in their expression. This is partly because I sometimes fit into that category myself, yet I am not attracted to it in a partner. So, a biologically born "man" who expresses himself in a feminine way (either by mannerism, or appearance) probably won't get a date from me.

But, a transgendered person who is very masculine in expression and identity will likely catch my attention. I also don't want any kids, so this is not an issue for me.

I've never dated someone (to my knowledge) who is transgendered so I have no actual experience with this. But, based on what I know about myself I believe it wouldn't be an issue as long as he meets my criteria for being what I consider "masculine." If I have learned anything over the years, it is that "sexuality" is super complicated and there's no easy way to describe it from one person to the next.

 

[Euchale]

It depends on when and how I find out about it. If it´s at the second date or so, I am fine with it. If it´s in the bedroom, I´m not.
A huge turnoff for me is the "voice" a lot of transgender have, so if this is not kept in check, a no for me.

-No kids: I don´t mind
-If he/she wants a operation I will fully support it. If not, that is also fine by me.
-Social Stigma: Uhh whatever, as long as we are happy, fuck everybody else

 

[tr1age]

It depends on when and how I find out about it. If it´s at the second date or so, I am fine with it. If it´s in the bedroom, I´m not.
A huge turnoff for me is the "voice" a lot of transgender have, so if this is not kept in check, a no for me.

-No kids: I don´t mind
-If he/she wants a operation I will fully support it. If not, that is also fine by me.
-Social Stigma: Uhh whatever, as long as we are happy fuck everybody else

See Euchale this is why in rare moments, I love you

 

[Milleuda]

See Euchale this is why in rare moments, I love you

I like him more than rarely

/hug to you Euchale

 

[ToxicAsF]

I don't think I could mentally get over the fact that the person once had a penis. I'm not homophobic in the sense that I disapprove of such things, but I don't think I could ever engage someone in any emotional/sexual context if I were to know such things. Not that I wouldn't respect them as a person or consider them a friend, but that's just not something I could get past I don't think romantically.

 

[Milleuda]

I don't think I could mentally get over the fact that the person once had a penis. I'm not homophobic in the sense that I disapprove of such things, but I don't think I could ever engage someone in any emotional/sexual context if I were to know such things. Not that I wouldn't respect them as a person or consider them a friend, but that's just not something I could get past I don't think romantically.

I don't think that makes you homophobic. There is an emotional/spiritual component to attraction beyond the physical so this is just part of that.

 

[ToxicAsF]

I don't think that makes you homophobic. There is an emotional/spiritual component to attraction beyond the physical so this is just part of that.

Poor wording I guess. I just couldn't do it. I'm pretty damn accepting of people and I may cross boundaries in peoples comfort level, but if push came to shove? Nope. Not a chance.

I feel like I'll offend someone if I just clearly say "I find it icky", but that's the truth of it.

 

[Milleuda]

Poor wording I guess. I just couldn't do it. I'm pretty damn accepting of people and I may cross boundaries in peoples comfort level, but if push came to shove? Nope. Not a chance.

I feel like I'll offend someone if I just clearly say "I find it icky", but that's the truth of it.

Yea, I think this is a tough topic in general. Sexuality is so dynamic... it's hard to really categorize it all.

I mean, there's even an entire subreddit dedicated to straight men that get off to gay porn. It's all a spectrum.

 

[ToxicAsF]

I mean, there's even an entire subreddit dedicated to straight men that get off to gay porn. It's all a spectrum.

Nope. Nope nope nope. I may talk a big game, but if something like that comes across my feed, I feel ill. W on W? Awesome. W on M? Cool. M on M? /vomit

But I'm straying a bit off course here. Again, nothing against it, I just couldn't handle it.

 

[tr1age]

Nope. Nope nope nope. I may talk a big game, but if something like that comes across my feed, I feel ill. W on W? Awesome. W on M? Cool. M on M? /vomit

But I'm straying a bit off course here. Again, nothing against it, I just couldn't handle it.

Yeah I know a lot of people who find the idea repulsive. It really is an attraction thing. I find if a man has fake boobs but still has a penis and is having sex with a woman to be very sexually attractive. It is some weird anime vibe to it haha.

 

[Milleuda]

Yeah I know a lot of people who find the idea repulsive. It really is an attraction thing. I find if a man has fake boobs but still has a penis and is having sex with a woman to be very sexually attractive. It is some weird anime vibe to it haha.

Yep, at the end of the day it's all a spectrum. It's complicated and no 2 people will have the same preferences... which makes us all human.

 

[Euchale]

I watch gay porn just for the story. I promise! No really, gay porn has even worse story than most straight porn, which is an achievement by itself.

I'm not homophobic, but...

I don't think that makes you homophobic. There is an emotional/spiritual component to attraction beyond the physical so this is just part of that.

The problem is that lately we had a lot of people using ""I'm not x, but" like "I'm not a racist, but ..." or "I don't dislike women, but..." to use it as an excuse for being what they say they aren't.
And no worries Bruce, I think you are the least offensive person I know.

 

[ToxicAsF]

I think it's more "I don't want to offend people when I say I don't like that".

 

[PsionicFox]

If you were to meet a transgender male, were attracted to them as a straight male, would you consider dating them?

For accuracy, a Transgender Male or 'Trans Male' is someone who is assigned as female at birth, but who identifies their gender as male. So what I think you mean is: "If you were to meet a transgender female, were attracted to them as a straight male, would you consider dating them?"

Moving on.

Attraction is a strange thing. As someone who identifies as bisexual, my viewpoint it a little different from others. For me, attraction is attraction. If I'm into you, then that's what matters - not what plumbing you were born with or what gender you identify as. I display as masculine with few feminine traits, and my preferences run a broad spectrum. I've known several people who are transgender or genderfluid or asexual, and it honestly doesn't matter to me.

Now to address tr1age's specific questions: Much like there is a spectrum of attraction, there is also a spectrum of transgender - some choose to 'pass', and endeavor to be as close to the inner image of their gender as they can. Some choose not to do this, and continue to appear as the gender they were born with. Some opt to transition via surgery, and yet others cannot or do not want to. It depends on the person, and each has to make that decision alone.

To give you folks a new term, you've all basically said you're cisgendered. This is the direct counterpart to transgendered, meaning you identify with the gender you were assigned at birth. So Gyoin is a Cisgendered Heterosexual Male, Milleuda is a Cisgendered Homosexual Male, and I'm a Cisgendered Bisexual Male. One of the things people don't understand is that gender identity and sexual preference are not the same thing, and the two are not inhibited by one another as evidenced by Milleuda being Cis and Homosexual and Gyoin also being Cis and Heterosexual.

Am I going to be less attracted to you for being Cis or Trans? No. Am I going to be less attracted to you for being Male or Female? No. I'm just attracted to you. And however you'll let me express that is just fine.

Do I want children? Yes, absolutely. Do they have to biologically be mine? I would like at least one, but as a child of adoption, I'd feel less if I didn't do the same for another child.

W on W? Awesome. W on M? Cool. M on M? /vomit

Why vomit? I'd be interested to see you examine this. Why does the idea of two guys getting it on disgust you, but not two women? Aside from you just not being into guys, does it actively disgust you? Is this because our Cis Male-dominated society has told you that's 'hot' because somehow it means less for two women to have sex together? Is it because a penis is involved in one but not the other? I don't say this to attack you mate (I hope you know I love you), I'm genuinely interested in the thought process. I find most people don't think about this stuff too deeply, and hey, you might learn something about yourself in the process.

 

[Euchale]

For accuracy, a Transgender Male or 'Trans Male' is someone who is assigned as female at birth, but who identifies their gender as male.

Whoops, I thought it was the other way around. Then my former sentence would turn into a no. I am fairly certain I could not live together with a man.

For me, attraction is attraction.

I define myself heterosexual, because I mostly have interest in women. Nothing more, nothing less.

To give you folks a new term,

But isn´t this the point, that we are just trying to invent new terms, just so we can put people in a drawer without having to care what the person behind it is? This is why I try to avoid using too many terms, because in the end it just leads to people being sour because they were being mislabeled by somebody who is not fluid in gender terminology.

I just realized I didn´t address the adoption part. I could see myself adopting a child with a partner. I might actually like this more than my own kid, if I can get one that is past the "3-5 year old"-phase.

 

[ToxicAsF]

Why vomit? I'd be interested to see you examine this. Why does the idea of two guys getting it on disgust you, but not two women? Aside from you just not being into guys, does it actively disgust you? Is this because our Cis Male-dominated society has told you that's 'hot' because somehow it means less for two women to have sex together? Is it because a penis is involved in one but not the other? I don't say this to attack you mate (I hope you know I love you), I'm genuinely interested in the thought process. I find most people don't think about this stuff too deeply, and hey, you might learn something about yourself in the process.

Let's be honest here, there is generally only one reason to watch said videos, and that is to get in the mood, be it with someone or by yourself. It's a form of stimulant.

Now, on a personal level, it's about enhancing the imagination. Two women? Yeah, I'd love to have two women interact with me. Even though in the video there is no male figure, I can interject images of myself and get to where I need to go. Same thing with W on M. I can "replace" the male figure in the video with myself and still find it hot, because there is still a woman involved and - in the context of furthering my imagination - it still gets the gears moving.

In the final scenario, there is just nothing there that appeases to me, and my thought process has been trained in the sense of furthering my imagination. I don't want any of that. It does not fulfill any of my desires. I also have a very hard time removing things from my mind's eye, so if I stumble across things of that nature I have a hard time expunging it from memory. First glance? No, not immediate vomiting or extreme disgust but I will look away/ close the window / cringe a bit. But then the image doesn't leave my mind and continues to increase the level of disgust.

Also, I'm talking to the extreme graphical nature. If I see two dudes kissing, whatever. That doesn't affect me in the slightest.

To give a different analogy - You want vanilla ice cream. You always like vanilla ice cream. In front of you is vanilla ice cream. You bit into vanilla ice cream. It's coconut ice cream. You don't like coconut ice cream. All you can taste is coconut ice cream. You want to get the taste of coconut ice cream out of your mouth. You then eat vanilla ice cream and all is good with the world. It's cool if you like coconut ice cream, but I don't want it. I want vanilla ice cream.

 

[PsionicFox]

But isn´t this the point, that we are just trying to invent new terms, just so we can put people in a drawer without having to care what the person behind it is? This is why I try to avoid using too many terms, because in the end it just leads to people being sour because they were being mislabeled by somebody who is not fluid in gender terminology.

I just realized I didn´t address the adoption part. I could see myself adopting a child with a partner. I might actually like this more than my own kid, if I can get one that is past the "3-5 year old"-phase.

Be that as it may, people have a right to an identity. As a species, we find/create names for things, it's part and parcel of how we understand the world. I've had enough people tell me that "I can't be Bisexual" or that Bisexuality isn't real and that I should "pick a side" that you can be damn sure I'm keeping my label, thanks. But that's a different discussion for a different time.

Also, as someone who was a foster child from age 3 until my eventual adoption by family number nine at age 9, I applaud your strength in your choice. But trust me - adopting an infant might be gross - adopting a child who was my age is hard in a way that only my parents could explain. I was not a god son.

Let's be honest here, there is generally only one reason to watch said videos, and that is to get in the mood, be it with someone or by yourself. It's a form of stimulant.
*snip*
Also, I'm talking to the extreme graphical nature. If I see two dudes kissing, whatever. That doesn't affect me in the slightest.

Makes total sense given that we're talking about pornography for the purposes of arousal. I'm glad I asked.

 

[Euchale]

Also, as someone who was a foster child from age 3 until my eventual adoption by family number nine at age 9, I applaud your strength in your choice. But trust me - adopting an infant might be gross - adopting a child who was my age is hard in a way that only my parents could explain. I was not a god son.

I do know what you are talking about. A former boss of mine adopted 3 children from Sri Lanka who lost their parents due to the tsunami in 2004. They were aged 4,5,10 and they would regularly come in to visit their dad. You could tell that they are very troubled, but if nobody is taking care of them, it will only get worse.

 

[Milleuda]

I think it's more "I don't want to offend people when I say I don't like that".

Aww I hope you are never scared to be who you are! Attraction is unique for each of us.

But isn´t this the point, that we are just trying to invent new terms, just so we can put people in a drawer without having to care what the person behind it is? This is why I try to avoid using too many terms, because in the end it just leads to people being sour because they were being mislabeled by somebody who is not fluid in gender terminology.

I think we like to create "buckets" because it makes things easier to process for our brains. While labels can be used negatively, they are also a way for people with similar characteristics to bond.

Attraction is a strange thing. As someone who identifies as bisexual, my viewpoint it a little different from others. For me, attraction is attraction. If I'm into you, then that's what matters - not what plumbing you were born with or what gender you identify as. I display as masculine with few feminine traits, and my preferences run a broad spectrum. I've known several people who are transgender or genderfluid or asexual, and it honestly doesn't matter to me.

I am of the unique viewpoint that we are all bisexual, but some of us are heavily weighted one way or another

I think there is also physical attraction and "spiritual" attraction (there may be a term for it but I have no idea). The closest analogy I can think of is when you have "bros" who basically love each other but would never sleep together.