Wildstar Wildstar Business Model Revealed.

[Disprezzo]

The cost of one CREDD is set by the player. The easier it gets to obtain money, the more people want to buy CREDD, the higher the cost will rise.

No, that isn't the case. All MMOs have a exponential curve of gold being worth less and less, to a point where gold is nearly worthless (take WoW as an example). That means that prices are literally unstable 24/7, one morning it's high, the next it's low. MMO's arent real world economies, you are talking about a population of players taht ranges from 14-20 years old for like 80% of the population. 99% of the time the AH is just a undercut fest without taking minimum regards to inflation or other shit, so no Mr. economists, this is MMO world not Wall Street

 

[Keleynal]

Did he say "Housing Dungeons"? I don't know what that is, but I want a boss monster in my basement now.

"Hey, check out my cool minibar downstairs..."

"Oh, cool! What!?! Aaaaaarrrrrgggghhhh!!!!"

 

[Crake]

I am relieved its going to be sub with no cash shop. I usually end up spending more money in those stupid things then I would on a sub anyway. As for the spring 2014 release date, I'm disappointed that I won't be able to play sooner but I'm happy that when I do play I'll get a better, more polished game that isn't being rushed out the door. I think the reputation they have created is preventing NC soft from really pushing them to release the game too soon.

 

[Sasquatauch]

I'm also a bit disappointed there was no mention of a Collector's Edition or other edition somewhere in-between the base box and CE. I'm sure there will be one, but it would have been nice to hear about it and maybe the cost to go along with it.

 

[Disprezzo]

The system should balance itself out, it'll just take a while to get to a price point that the both sides are happy with (assuming people stick w/using the CREDD system). The system will self-adjust for inflation as well, so as more people get more money, CREDD will cost more. Also, I think the reason there's such a stink around F2P MMOs is that most of the games that use this model are Korean. Those games are terrible regardless of the model.

Take WoW as an example, in MoP the Brawlers Guild was added, it costed about 10k gold to get the ticket to be allowed to enter it when the expansion came out, a year later (now) it costs 250g.
This happens in all MMOs where the community is made up for the larger part by young people. In EVE this model works because the average population isn't 16 years old lol.
I am telling you that they added this option because they want a big portion of F2P MMO users to join on wildstar, they didn't put it in there as a last resort and to be "nice" to poor peope, they put it in to make money. CREDD makes sense for Carbine if they actually get alot of F2P players to play their game that is why I believe that it won't be that hard to end up playing for free.

 

[GameFreak]

Spring 2014 :'( but i'm glad they did a sub model.

 

[Euchale]

Take WoW as an example, in MoP the Brawlers Guild was added, it costed about 10k gold to get the ticket to be allowed to enter it when the expansion came out, a year later (now) it costs 250g.

And this is because everybody who wanted to be inside the guild, is inside the guild. And the tickets were created ingame, not outside of the game, without real money involved.

 

[Keleynal]

No, that isn't the case. All MMOs have a exponential curve of gold being worth less and less, to a point where gold is nearly worthless (take WoW as an example). That means that prices are literally unstable 24/7, one morning it's high, the next it's low. MMO's arent real world economies, you are talking about a population of players taht ranges from 14-20 years old for like 80% of the population. 99% of the time the AH is just a undercut fest without taking minimum regards to inflation or other shit, so no Mr. economists, this is MMO world not Wall Street

WoW has actually been pretty stable, at least my experience vanilla to WotLK. Sure, prices increased, but so did the amount of gold dropped. AH's were divided by server as well as faction, so you may have experienced more volatility on your server than what I did on mine. Real life Wall Street has volatity, and so do MMO economies, which actually can make them pretty good models for economists to study. When Gyoin is sitting on over a million currency a month or two into the game, you may find you have more respect for Mr. Economist.

 

[Sasquatauch]

Take WoW as an example, in MoP the Brawlers Guild was added, it costed about 10k gold to get the ticket to be allowed to enter it when the expansion came out, a year later (now) it costs 250g.
This happens in all MMOs where the community is made up for the larger part by young people. In EVE this model works because the average population isn't 16 years old lol.
I am telling you that they added this option because they want a big portion of F2P MMO users to join on wildstar, they didn't put it in there as a last resort and to be "nice" to poor peope, they put it in to make money. CREDD makes sense for Carbine if they actually get alot of F2P players to play their game that is why I believe that it won't be that hard to end up playing for free.

I don't know what that is, but I'm betting the cost of it went down because it's not nearly as desirable as it once was. I don't think demographics has anything to do with it. If CREDD was the only system they were going with I think you'd have a valid argument. But seeing as they're doing both, I see it as a non or very minor issue.

 

[Darkhorse]

I am relieved its going to be sub with no cash shop. I usually end up spending more money in those stupid things then I would on a sub anyway. As for the spring 2014 release date, I'm disappointed that I won't be able to play sooner but I'm happy that when I do play I'll get a better, more polished game that isn't being rushed out the door. I think the reputation they have created is preventing NC soft from really pushing them to release the game too soon.

Gives me more time to clear through my steam summer sale purchase's

 

[ToxicAsF]

All I can say is, at this point, whether people approve or disapprove, this is the model and to move on a little from the "it won't work" or "This sucks" or "X model would have been better".

Speculating that things will fail based on assumptions of markets that do not exist yet just doesn't work. That's like me saying "There's life on Venus because there is life on Earth". It just doesn't quite work that way. The economy will have so many moving parts (most of which are UNKNOWNS), no one can make the educated basis of how it will work for sure. The only thing you can do is try your best to make it work for you, and not to be behind the game (if you want to be in the leader spot for most gold). If you don't want to be in that top tier, you can not give a fuck.

Seriously, mild conservation of gold and pay your monthly fees and you will be happy. None of that will matter. Just like how you can't control today's Real World economy, you'll just have to work within the parameters that are set by those who are above you (whether you like it or not). It's really all you can do. Bitching and moaning solves nothing at this point, ESPECIALLY with all the hypotheticals.

In-game economy is a living, breathing thing. Never expect anything different. There will be manipulation. There will be adjustments. And not necessarily done by Carbine, but the people that work these markets. It's an open-market, and you can either choose to be a part of it, or not.

 

[kaiju]

Spring 2014 seems like a good release window, I hope they aim for late spring honestly, more time to polish in my opinion.

Also more time for me to work on my portfolio and apply to carbine before my life wastes away.

 

[Keleynal]

I don't know what that is, but I'm betting the cost of it went down because it's not nearly as desirable as it once was. I don't think demographics has anything to do with it. If CREDD was the only system they were going with I think you'd have a valid argument. But seeing as they're doing both, I see it as a non or very minor issue.

I heard about the Brawler's Guild situation from a friend of mine that plays MoP. It sounds like classic supply and demand. A new feature came out that a lot of people wanted, but the supply of tickets was limited, so it costed an exorbitant amount to be among the privileged few to get in right away. Now, since the item only has to be bought 1 time, pretty much everyone that wanted a ticket has one. Supply is much higher than demand now, so the price is rock bottom. This is pretty close to real life scenario. Remember beanie babies?

 

[Disprezzo]

WoW has actually been pretty stable, at least my experience vanilla to WotLK. Sure, prices increased, but so did the amount of gold dropped. AH's were divided by server as well as faction, so you may have experienced more volatility on your server than what I did on mine. Real life Wall Street has volatity, and so do MMO economies, which actually can make them pretty good models for economists to study. When Gyoin is sitting on over a million currency a month or two into the game, you may find you have more respect for Mr. Economist.

I wasn't being disrespectful towards economists.
WoW does not have a stable economy, it is the exact oposite of stable. It was stable in vanilla all the way to wrath because gold was worth something.
Now WoW doesn't even have gold sellers anymore pretty much because gold is worthless (in the most part this is also due to the fact that they added guild repair removing a huge gold sink from the game) and because they based the game on daily quests which are a free 1k g aday just by playing 1 hour.
The more casual a game gets the less the game economy is influenced by inflation as people don't give two shits about money, prices drop and rise based on how much the server farmers played the day before. That's why I am saying that this CREDD system will only work if Carbine is able to maintain gold relevant ingame, if the currency become useless like it has in WoW it will go to shit.

Also you forget the factor of player whining, Carbine is playing tough now, but NCsoft will go in and play their part in making the F2P option easily obtainable as they will want to steal players from the 100000000000 f2p mmos as well as teh subfee mmos. Ergo, I am telling you Carbine will have to pull down their pants on the payment model if they really don't want to compromise the gearing up (40men raiding hardcore stuff), as NCsoft wont let them make a niche game.

 

[Euchale]

Also you forget the factor of player whining, Carbine is playing tough now, but NCsoft will go in and play their part in making the F2P option easily obtainable as they will want to steal players from the 100000000000 f2p mmos as well as teh subfee mmos. Ergo, I am telling you Carbine will have to pull down their pants on the payment model if they really don't want to compromise the gearing up (40men raiding hardcore stuff), as NCsoft wont let them make a niche game.

I am also afraid of NCsoft. They do horrible things.

 

[ToxicAsF]

Also you forget the factor of player whining, Carbine is playing tough now, but NCsoft will go in and play their part in making the F2P option easily obtainable as they will want to steal players from the 100000000000 f2p mmos as well as teh subfee mmos. Ergo, I am telling you Carbine will have to pull down their pants on the payment model if they really don't want to compromise the gearing up (40men raiding hardcore stuff), as NCsoft wont let them make a niche game.

I am also afraid of NCsoft. They do horrible things.

To those complaining about NCSoft, let me say this. I can assure you, the CREDD system is what NCSoft's hands had their part in already. Why do you think it costs $20 over the base $15? That's the cut. That's the "conversion cost" that GW2 has from gold>gems and gems>gold. NCSoft is already getting their "F2P" model from the CREDD system (because YOU can play for free with in-game currency that is worthless, while SOMEONE ELSE paid for it).

I don't see too much more finagling over this, at least not for the first 3+ years (if WS is successful). If not successful, then yes, F2P will occur. NCSoft knows what it's doing. It won't squeeze the consumers before the point where it becomes necessary.

 

[TIG]

Disprezzo The thing you are not taking into account is that the initial CREDD has to be bought with real money by someone for 20 bucks.

It won't matter if it costs 3 gold or 3k gold on the commodities market. When you talk about mudflation for pixels (brawlers guild) you are talking fake economy paying for fake goods. With credd it allows for a fake economy to pay for real world goods. There is a basis for setting a price (20 bucks). On top of that, its gonna be hosted on the commodities server with a strict lowest price sells policy. That means that 20 bucks will sell for exactly what the market will bear.

 

[Keleynal]

[spolier]I wasn't being disrespectful towards economists.
WoW does not have a stable economy, it is the exact oposite of stable. It was stable in vanilla all the way to wrath because gold was worth something.
Now WoW doesn't even have gold sellers anymore pretty much because gold is worthless (in the most part this is also due to the fact that they added guild repair removing a huge gold sink from the game) and because they based the game on daily quests which are a free 1k g aday just by playing 1 hour.
The more casual a game gets the less the game economy is influenced by inflation as people don't give two shits about money, prices drop and rise based on how much the server farmers played the day before. That's why I am saying that this CREDD system will only work if Carbine is able to maintain gold relevant ingame, if the currency become useless like it has in WoW it will go to shit.

Also you forget the factor of player whining, Carbine is playing tough now, but NCsoft will go in and play their part in making the F2P option easily obtainable as they will want to steal players from the 100000000000 f2p mmos as well as teh subfee mmos. Ergo, I am telling you Carbine will have to pull down their pants on the payment model if they really don't want to compromise the gearing up (40men raiding hardcore stuff), as NCsoft wont let them make a niche game.[/spoiler]

I think you make a fair point. I'm not familiar at all with what happened in WoW post WotLK, but since WoW is a sub only game, it would seem that model has its share of pitfalls as well. I expect the CX market to be crazy volatile at the start. A gambler's dream. Then it will stabilize and the gamblers will see if they came out ahead.

I think you raise a valid concern about NCsoft. We've seen one promising game sunk by a stupid publishing company already this year.

However, there's a lot of "What if's" and worst case scenario in your fears. I think we should deal with what we know now and not worry about what it could turn into later.

 

[Disprezzo]

To those complaining about NCSoft, let me say this. I can assure you, the CREDD system is what NCSoft's hands had their part in already. Why do you think it costs $20 over the base $15? That's the cut. That's the "conversion cost" that GW2 has from gold>gems and gems>gold. NCSoft is already getting their "F2P" model from the CREDD system (because YOU can play for free with in-game currency that is worthless, while SOMEONE ELSE paid for it).

I don't see too much more finagling over this, at least not for the first 3+ years (if WS is successful). If not successful, then yes, F2P will occur. NCSoft knows what it's doing. It won't squeeze the consumers before the point where it becomes necessary.

I agree with you, but you forget that for them (NCSOFT) to make money out of those 20$ it means that it must be decently easy for F2P players to buy it ingame. If it takes 7 days of constant grinding to get enough ingame currency to buy the 20$ CREDD no one will do it and NCSoft will get pissed. That's why I am afraid that Carbine will have to make it decently easy for F2P players to grind the ingame currency to buy the 20$ worth CREDD.
F2P gamers (which tend to be more casual) will never play a game where they need to spend half their game time griding to pay for their game lol, ergo NCsoft wont be happy if this stuff isn't well balanced. To me this CREDD thing is really hard to pull off in this types of games (unlike EVE where even the f2p players there are hardcore lol).

 

[Sasquatauch]

What you are probably going to see is stuff like in eve popping up. you'll get people like Gyoin using "gold" to buy CREDD and Employing Players for said CREDD to preform tasks to keep him on top of the market on a given server.

Other than through the CX, I'm not sure that CREDD will be transferable once bought.