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Zimmerman verdict

Are you happy with the Zimmerman verdict?

  • No, he should have been found guilty of something

    Votes: 3 18.8%
  • Yes, justice has been served

    Votes: 8 50.0%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 2 12.5%
  • I don't care

    Votes: 3 18.8%

  • Total voters
    16

Keleynal

Jesus Freak
There's probably only a few of us here that haven't heard of the Zimmerman trial, but for their benefit, I'll quickly recap. These particulars are as I understand them, so feel free to correct if I say something wrong.

George Zimmerman, a Hispanic man, was out patrolling his neighborhood one night as a self-appointed watchman following a tring of vandalism in the area. He spotted an African-American teen named Trayvon Martin walking down the street in a hoodie. Zimmerman didn't recognize him and considered him suspicious. He called the police and reported it, and then got out of his car and followed Martin on foot. They ended up having a confrontation in which they fought and Zimmerman shot Trayvon, killing him.

Initial public reaction was divided from the beginning, with many condemning Zimmerman immediately and others calling for acquittal. After a very public trial, a jury decided that he was not guilty of murder. Basically, he acted in self defense.

This tragedy has set off a firestorm of peaceful protests, not so peaceful riots, and lots of death threats against Zimmerman.

I didn't follow the trial closely enough to know all the facts, so I'm hesitant to make a judgement call about the verdict fulfilling justice or not. My feeling, though is that a teenage kid is dead that was unarmed at the time. I have a hard time believing that even a manslaughter verdict is not justified, but that's just gut feeling rather than a factual or legal basis.

A poll I recently read had 41% of Americans agreeing with the verdict and 41% disagreeing. 81% of African Americans are not happy with the verdict while 51% of Caucasians are. I suspect that the vast majority of those that are upset are ones that have condemned Zimmerman from the beginning and no amount of argument or evidence could convince them otherwise.

The media is, of course, capitalizing on this. More disturbingly, President Obama has weighed in on the verdict, comparing himself to Trayvon Martin and commenting on racial profiling. That disturbs me because it seems inappropiate for a President, the face of the federal government, to make disparaging remarks about a state level verdict. It undermines the decision that was made and seems inflammatory. I respect his opinion as an individual, but as President I'd hope he'd be putting out fires instead of pouring gasoline on them.

Here's a few stories from CNN if you want more info:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...-over-zimmerman-verdict-poll-finds/?hpt=hp_t1
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/15/justice/zimmerman-verdict-protests/index.html?iref=allsearch
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2013/07/19/pres-obama-couldve-been-me/?iref=allsearch

Interestingly, Zimmerman was in the news recently again. This time he was helping a family out of an overturned SUV.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/22/us/florida-zimmerman-vehicle/index.html?iref=allsearch

I'm curious about how others here feel about it. As always, lets keep the discussion respectful and civil.
 
First off the President is a disgusting and useless bastard wasting his time with this, and the media is the media. Broadcasting twisted misinformation to divide the population and glorify someone's death. Justice was served, people need to get over it.

No one knows what happened out there except for two people and one is dead. Zimmerman had wounds on his head and face and witnesses heard the sound of a struggle before a gunshot. I didn't follow the trial but he saw someone acting suspiciously and attempted to follow him while calling police. Should he have continued pursuit and was he overzealous in that choice? Probably, but it sounds as if he intended to do the right thing.

Also I want to make an IMPORTANT point here. It doesn't matter if he was unarmed. If Martin was attacking Zimmerman and Zimmerman could not get away or defend himself with hard hand techniques he escalated the force continuum to save himself and is justified. Granted no one knows what happened except for him though.

The idea of a physical struggle reminds me of a case up here in I think it was Yonkers, NY about a year ago or so. A convicted felon(i believe murder cant remember) who was wanted for more charges ended up in a chase with a police officer. The felon was driving his ATV down city streets and eventually bailed as the officer went to foot to continue the chase. He confronted the officer and they got in a struggle that lasted blocks. They found the cops radio on the roof of a building, his collapsible baton in the road another block away, etc. The felon had managed to grab his radio as he was struggling with him and threw it away. They had struggled over the baton and the officer got it away from them. Eventually the felon made an attempt to pull his gun from his holster. The officer wrestled it under his control and ended the struggle.

Long winded I know but my point is just because someone is unarmed and without some sort of extra, physical weapon doesn't prevent you from killing him to defend yourself.

EDIT: Found the details of the incident I described. I was a bit off http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...ronx-wild-chase-ends-gunfire-article-1.192320

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local&id=7721438
 
IMO the jury did an excellent job and came to a correct decision. It is painful to see a person killed especially one so young.

George Zimmerman has to see his face everytime he closes his eyes now, he has to live with it. On top of that he will probably go into witness protection agency not be able to see his family, friends and everything else because of the threats against him today. They are vicious.

The media should NEVER have gotten involved, sure a headline here and the final decision but thats it. They blew this way out of proportion and now we have peaceful protests and not so peaceful ones like you said Kel.

Obama shouldn't have gotten involved either, or let me clarify, he should have chosen his words better instead of saying "30 years ago that could have been me" and other comments meant to cause powerful emotional response which people then turn into hate and violence. He has the power to cause riots with some of the things he said during his speech.

Now people say "racial profiling" this and "racist" that. We are people no matter the color. There are plenty of Hispanics killing AA, AA killing Hispanics, Whites killing AA/H, AA killing Whites. But the thing is we are all "humans".

To sum it up i agree with the "Stand your Ground" laws set in place with the states. I believe there needs to be change within the community called USA against racial profiling "of ALL types". However i agree with the way the trial went.
 
Doing... my... best... to... give... nope, lost it. Zero fucks given about this kind of shit. :)
 
Not to pull too much off topic but here is what I was talking about with Force Continuum
UOF.jpg


This is what most police agencies follow. Our force continuum chart looks similar but keep in mind for civilians, they do not have this training nor do they have options. 20-30 years ago cops didn't have this training or all the shit they wear on their belt either. It was soft hand, hard hand, baton, and gun. There wasn't the LTL options in between baton and gun like TASERs and OC spray to attempt to keep everyone alive AND safe. The public doesn't have these options though. In NY as well as some other states its illegal for the regular public to carry collapsible batons or TASERs so they only have their hands and then Deadly Force.
 
Not to pull too much off topic but here is what I was talking about with Force Continuum
UOF.jpg


This is what most police agencies follow. Our force continuum chart looks similar but keep in mind for civilians, they do not have this training nor do they have options. 20-30 years ago cops didn't have this training or all the shit they wear on their belt either. It was soft hand, hard hand, baton, and gun. There wasn't the LTL options in between baton and gun like TASERs and OC spray to attempt to keep everyone alive AND safe. The public doesn't have these options though. In NY as well as some other states its illegal for the regular public to carry collapsible batons or TASERs so they only have their hands and then Deadly Force.
I learned about this in the Marines as well.

It's more of my heart as a father that I lean towards the "Must have been some other way" feelings. I don't think anyone doubts that there was a series of bad decisons made by both Zimmerman and Trayvon that led up to the confronation and ultimately the death of Trayvon. I really hope both families are able to heal.
 
I followed this case somewhat closely in that after I found out what happened I didn't need to watch any further as I knew what the outcome should have been. I have been to CCW classes (still waiting on my actual permit to come in *sigh*), shooter's courses and am CLEET certified. The verdict was correct.

The problem with the view of the outcome is certain people (first and foremost, our President) got involved by making foolish statements about a case they knew nothing about. I shouldn't have to say how inappropriate, moronic and racist Obama's decision was. The next problem is now the AG is going after him like a wolverine and trying to play the race card. Sadly, Holder's motivation is also racially motivated.

The true travesty of this case is seeing how poorly this administration has handled, and continues to handle, this case and how racist so many black people truly are. This is how far off base Holder is in his assessment of Zimmerman...

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/07/zimmerman-initiated-a-justice-for-sherman-ware-campaign/
 
I learned about this in the Marines as well.

It's more of my heart as a father that I lean towards the "Must have been some other way" feelings. I don't think anyone doubts that there was a series of bad decisons made by both Zimmerman and Trayvon that led up to the confronation and ultimately the death of Trayvon. I really hope both families are able to heal.



Last derailment...didnt know you served. Thank you for that. I figured I was explaining the continuum to mostly civilians.
 
Last derailment...didnt know you served. Thank you for that. I figured I was explaining the continuum to mostly civilians.
And you aren't wrong. I spent my entire enlistment stateside, cleaning weapons and running in circles. But I thank you on behalf of all the ones that actually did something.
 
Props to Kel for serving, and for Zakis explaining the situation.

Here's my take for those that disagree with what happened. I don't really have an opinion on the rightness or wrongness of the verdict, except to say as follows.

This is what judicial systems are for. To take the decision out of the hands of those impassioned by grief and anger and whimsy. Zimmerman was tried by a collective of his peers - mothers, fathers, siblings, young, old. That collective, after hearing both the prosecution and the defendant's cases, found him not guilty of the crime of murder. Was that the right call? They seemed to think so. But this probably isn't the end of the story. The case will probably get appealed, and the circus will start all over again.

But that's the legal system.
 
I actually hope I get called for jury duty at some point, even if it is for something boring. I see it as an important civil duty, like voting. I'm also interested in the legal process in general, so it'd be interesting to see firsthand.

Oddly enough, the Zimmerman jury was all women, so the fathers and brothers were under represented.
 
Props to Kel for serving, and for Zakis explaining the situation.

Here's my take for those that disagree with what happened. I don't really have an opinion on the rightness or wrongness of the verdict, except to say as follows.

This is what judicial systems are for. To take the decision out of the hands of those impassioned by grief and anger and whimsy. Zimmerman was tried by a collective of his peers - mothers, fathers, siblings, young, old. That collective, after hearing both the prosecution and the defendant's cases, found him not guilty of the crime of murder. Was that the right call? They seemed to think so. But this probably isn't the end of the story. The case will probably get appealed, and the circus will start all over again.

But that's the legal system.

Just as an FYI, he was acquitted so there is no appeal and the jury was all women. The next step is typically a civil case depending on if the decision left it open to a civil trial, which this one did I believe. What can get a little hairy is when it comes to Stand Your Ground laws - Martin's family could actually end out owing Zimmerman money.
 
I actually hope I get called for jury duty at some point, even if it is for something boring. I see it as an important civil duty, like voting. I'm also interested in the legal process in general, so it'd be interesting to see firsthand.


I got called once. I asked for exemption as the case was about a man who was charged with sexually assaulting his niece. Having suffered that sort of stuff as a child, I felt I couldn't be objective. So I bowed out. Objectivity is the most important part.
 
Just as an FYI, he was acquitted so there is no appeal and the jury was all women. The next step is typically a civil case depending on if the decision left it open to a civil trial, which this one did I believe. What can get a little hairy is when it comes to Stand Your Ground laws - Martin's family could actually end out owing Zimmerman money.
Like rain on your wedding day.
 
Yeah, that would definitely be salt in the wound for the Martin family. Honestly, I think they're better off just dropping it at this point.
 
I would say this: We were not there, we were not a part of the trial, we JUST DON'T KNOW.

And yes that is me not allowing my comment for debate or conversation, because I am sick of people posting "Kill him" on facebook, when THEY HAVE NO IDEA what actually happened, and if it was them, they would be singing a different tune, as well it is really not their RIGHT.

They are not the jury, they are the defendant, and they don't know the victim.

People are stupid, we publicize stupid trials, and there is MUCH WORSE and much HAPPIER shit we could be reporting, but the public likes reality TV. End of story.
 
One of the best parts of my job = utilizing my military working dog in the escalation of force! Recently our SOP (standard operation procedures) put MWD's at the same level of OC and collapsible batons.

Zakis are you qual'd on OC?
 
People are stupid, we publicize stupid trials, and there is MUCH WORSE and much HAPPIER shit we could be reporting, but the public likes reality TV. End of story.

Just like "Breaking News" Its a Royal Prince.

/endderailment[DOUBLEPOST=1374582257,1374582160][/DOUBLEPOST]
Oddly enough, the Zimmerman jury was all women, so the fathers and brothers were under represented.

I believe the all woman jury, it was meant to bring about a more emotional response from them, which in the end they held it together and were able to think calmly through the situation in front of them.
 
One of the best parts of my job = utilizing my military working dog in the escalation of force! Recently our SOP (standard operation procedures) put MWD's at the same level of OC and collapsible batons.

Zakis are you qual'd on OC?

No. We don't carry it on transports or use it in the jail. I'm qualified with ASP batons and TASERs as well as a few of our other stun devices like the ICE shield. God that thing is nifty.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 
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