Death really pisses me off...

[Meta]

I disagree. I think a good religion needs to be based in truth. I can have huge amounts of faith and good feelings in a set of beliefs, but if those beliefs are based on lies, then it has profited me nothing. Having faith is not enough, it must be put in the right place in order to be effective. There must be action to faith, or it is dead. Life can only come from life. It would be meaningless for me to worship a god that was inanimate, imaginary, or dead.

I believe that there is truth that is truth for all people, in all places, and at all times. More than that, there is a God that is true and unchanging, who can be known and relied upon to follow through on His promises. I have no use for a god or a religion that changes to suit my mood. That's the kind of dangerous behavior that results in Christians feeling justified in preaching hatred (Westbourough Baptist), robbery (most televangelists) or practicing genocide (the crusades). God (the basis of truth) must exist apart from my feelings about Him, whether or not I like Him.

Think people want a belief system that adapts to them because it is comfortable. Hearing that you're a sinner and condemned to an eteernity in hell can be a bitter pill to swallow, especially if it is untempered by an understanding of God's nature and character. That's why Christians get comments like "(Christians) thinks gays are the devil." Jesus didn't come to condemn the world, but to save it. But because the truth is unchanging, God requires us to change and adapt to Him. Not because He hates us, but because He loves us- even when we don't deserve it (Romans 5:8).

A lot of people have a hard time accepting God as a loving, father-like figure. I think that's mostly because we don't like admitting that we need help. It's better on the ego to say that all the answers exist inside of ourselves, or in nature, or in anything other than an all-powerful being that we would have to surrender our lives to. That jump causes many to stumble. The good news is that we can get to know God before we take any kind of "leap of faith."

Trying to put it in a nutshell: Truth is absolute. God is truth. God is love.

To backtrack a bit, there are a few topics that I change my mind on from time to time. Currently I believe that there is no absolute truth, everything is relative. And even things that are true, are only true in certain situations under certain conditions and are lies in other situations under different conditions. But those are my feelings today ask me in a month I might be back believing in absolute truth.

Also the psychedelic research they did in the 60's has been slowly restarted in some parts of the world, some of that research deals with the religious/spiritual experience some people undergo under these substances and how it compares to natural occurring religious/spiritual experiences and how do both affect a person's life. Some cool stuff to look up if you are interested.

 

[Red Omen]

Death has been really pissing me off lately. I will be having a good day and all of a sudden mortality sets in. The idea of dying doesn't piss me off it is the idea that lately I don't actually think there is anything to death... I get this strange feeling that death means almost the same thing as pulling the plug on a computer... lights out, nothing. Existence over. Plug pulled.

My brain cannot comprehend this at all. I don't understand "NOTHING".

I haven't had a chance to go through this thread yet, and I don't want to alienate anyone in this guild by talking about my political or religious views, but if the idea of nothingness after death concerns you, you might like this passage from De Rerum Natura, an epic poem by Lucretius.

Nil igitur mors est ad nos neque pertinet hilum,
quandoquidem natura animi mortalis habetur. [...]
sic, ubi non erimus, cum corporis atque animai
discidium fuerit quibus e sumus uniter apti,
scilicet haud nobis quicquam, qui non erimus tum,
accidere omnino poterit sensumque movere,
non si terra mari miscebitur et mare caelo.

Death, then, is nothing to us, nor does it concern us in the least, inasmuch as the nature of the mind is but a mortal possession. [...] So, when we shall be no more, when there shall have come the parting of body and soul, by whose union we are made one, you may know that nothing at all will be able to happen to us, who then will be no more, or stir our feeling; no, not if earth shall be mingled with sea, and sea with sky.

I set it for choir a few years ago. It's a fascinating poem if you want to look it up.

Carry on.

 

[REDACTED]

Death is my avatar. Did you know that?

I think the process of dying is far, far worse than being dead. Some people refer to their existence as living, but look around you... most of them are just dying... waiting to be dead. A sad fact, but as humans we get so wrapped up in the mundane, we forget how to live. Smell the roses, hug a tree, love yourself and let others BE.

 

[Keleynal]

In regard to this topic, I have also been recently riddled with this kind of dread, even as a Christian. I have doubts, and every so often, I panic—what if death means nothing? Even if I am remembered, that has to be temporary: in the end, the people who remember me are going to die, and everything I do will amount to nothing. Depressing, and I don’t know how to deal with this besides distract myself with other things (if you can even call that dealing with it). I feel like on the surface at least I believe in everything Keleynal described, but deep down, I may be looking for some sort of greater evidence. Not that I think that faith is unjustified, but, as a scientist (or hopefully getting there, still in college and it seems to be getting more difficult XD), I guess I just like having evidence.

I think it's fantastic that you have questions about your faith. Don't be afraid to dig in and look for answers. I think it's been well-covered that there isn't any empirical proof of anthing being discussed here, but that doesn't mean that satisfactory proof cannot be found. I went through a period where I asked "Do I really believe this stuff? People rising from the dead? Eternal life? Eternal torment? Jesus returning from heaven on a white horse with a multitude of dead Christians in tow? That's crazy talk!" But the more I dug in, the more I realized that Christianity held up, and did a better job explaining stuff than anything else I was looking into.

Books I found helpful- The Case for Christ, The Case for Faith, and Letters from a Skeptic- all by Lee Strobel. Also, Mere Christianity by CS Lewis. How to be a Christian Without being Religious really changed my life and showed be how to divorce my faith from all the "church stuff" that gets in the way, confuses, and breeds hypocrisy.

No matter what faith (or non-faith) a person ascribes to, it requires a leap of faith- a point at which reason, evidence, and personal experience fail, and you have to decide whether or not to "buy in." Some people run from that leap their whole life rather than risk being wrong or taken in, but that results in uncertainty and insecurity. It's a big deal to take a leap of faith and more than a little bit scary, but for me it's the difference between really living and just going through the motions.

I'm excited for you that you're at a place to begin a journey of faith. Don't back down or retreat from tough questions and tough answers.

/quote Kismet]I think the process of dying is far, far worse than being dead. Some people refer to their existence as living, but look around you... most of them are just dying... waiting to be dead. A sad fact, but as humans we get so wrapped up in the mundane, we forget how to live. Smell the roses, hug a tree, love yourself and let others BE.[/quote]

Amen. I would add to that- very few reach outside of themselves to impact other people's lives. We are so wrapped up in making money and buying stuff and seeking pleasure that we neglect what's most important. In my view, the things we do for God and the things we do for others. Letting people BE is great in general, but love does require action. Apathy can be worse than hate.

 

[Diremongoose]

If I could pick my death, it would be sudden and unexpected, unlike my father who slowly died of metastasized bowel cancer when I was 17-18. The experience has definitely affected me in a number of ways. For one, I have fear of dying of cancer, the smell of chemotherapy freaks me out, and I have certain father issues. I blame my dad for not preparing for his death properly and causing our family to struggle financially. At the same time, I know this blame is irrational, but I can't reconcile these things yet.

As for belief, I have a completely materialistic viewpoint on the world. I WISH I could believe in an afterlife, spirituality, something else other than what we can perceive or infer, but I see no evidence for any of it. Until I do, such beliefs ring hollow to me.

As noted above, I fully agree that dying is far worse than death, so I focus on the living. The capacity for suffering is inherent to life and increases with the complexity of the organism and the level of sentience it possesses. Humans are geniuses of suffering, whether it be causing themselves harm or causing it to others. I try to help out where I can.

Returning to Tristan's original post,

Death has been really pissing me off lately. I will be having a good day and all of a sudden mortality sets in. The idea of dying doesn't piss me off it is the idea that lately I don't actually think there is anything to death... I get this strange feeling that death means almost the same thing as pulling the plug on a computer... lights out, nothing. Existence over. Plug pulled.

My brain cannot comprehend this at all. I don't understand "NOTHING".

Your biological hardware may be gone, everything you do and will ever do is over, but your presence isn't gone from the universe. People still remember you, what you did, what you stood for, and how you made them feel. Your works (professional and artistic), your children (genetic and adopted), people who were your friends and family (perhaps even your enemies), evoke the essence of who you were. Hopefully the impression you left will last generations or more.

This is what drives me to do science in my field. To increase food production and reduce suffering, and to leave a few papers behind with my name on it, so say 'I was here. This is what I did.'

 

[REDACTED]

Letting people BE is great in general, but love does require action. Apathy can be worse than hate.

I agree wholeheartedly Keleynal. And the reason I capitalized the word 'BE' is because I intended it, not so much as to leaving others alone, but allowing others to experience life in their own way. To BE. BE who you are, love yourself, take ownership of your decisions & choices in life, and know that there is always more learning, living and loving to do!

 

[Brown]

I've been wanting to reply to this thread for a while but didn't have the time to really put an answer up. I'll add more later on as I love the topic.

The mere thought of life after death seems illogical and unfathomable, yet we, or I anyways, have something inside of us that makes us think that there has to be more than just this. It is a type of faith I would say. Man through the centuries have created religions praying to gods of any sort, and believing in afterlife. When Man does not know what to do they must look for someone of authority, but who would we put in charge of the authority of life, gods. Man almost always looks up to a greater being in search of an answer to the meaning of life and life after death in hopes of something being there.

 

[Wolfdog101]

There are so many topics here, I don't know where to begin. But all these topics reminded me of an esoteric talk by Alan Watts.

I have to say I really liked this talk