Death really pisses me off...

[Meta]

So basically we're moving into the last stage on Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs which is self-actualization. Thing is only North America and Europe are pretty much in the self-esteem stage which means right now the world as a whole is nowhere close to be moving towards self-actualization and/or individual spirituality. Personally I don't like the the term spirituality because of all the baggage it holds, but what I mean is a system of beliefs and practices to grow as a human being, to be able to connect with a greater amount of people on a personal level.

 

[tr1age]

So basically we're moving into the last stage on Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs which is self-actualization. Thing is only North America and Europe are pretty much in the self-esteem stage which means right now the world as a whole is nowhere close to be moving towards self-actualization and/or individual spirituality. Personally I don't like the the term spirituality because of all the baggage it holds, but what I mean is a system of beliefs and practices to grow as a human being, to be able to connect with a greater amount of people on a personal level.

I think this is a humanity issue as a whole. Being able to put aside war and religious quarrels to really understand ourselves and humanity better is a valid place to go, but one which would take a whole lot more than what we have so far to pull off.

It is like the cancellation of our space exploration. We are so focused on our economy that we aren't focusing on what might actually be IMPORTANT, such as figuring out this mystery called life.

 

[Keleynal]

The hierarchy of needs is a bit over-simplified for me, especially if it's being related to an entire culture. I can see the application, but needs progression doesn't seem to march in such a linear fashion for an individual, let alone large groups.

I do agree that the world is on the cusp of a new age of enlightenment. I think people growing up now are going to be jaded by all the technology and be looking for something deeper. When science is doing all the amazing, impossible miracles, people just may turn toward the spiritual to make sense of it all. Kind of the opposite of the Humanism- looking beyond or outside of ourselves for explanation and purpose.

It concerns me that Christianity is not well positioned to take advantage of any new interest. So many pastors, churches and denominations have fallen into disrepute that I can't blame the general shift away from religion and Christianity in particular. I'm hoping a new kind of Christian will rise up- one not confined to a building or denomination or beholden to a pastor, but filled and empowered by the Holy Spirit to be true ambassadors of Christ. Otherwise, I think Christianity in America will be as dead as the Roman Catholic church during the Dark Ages.

 

[Meta]

My personal opinion is that a good religion/spirituality needs to change on a constant basis, because the meaning of life for an individual and/or a group changes over time and means different things to a person at different stages of his/her life. Religions don't change at all unless something major forces them to, and even then they don't change much, which over time makes them outdated. On the other hand humans by our very nature do not like change very much. We like to hear about it but change takes us out of our comfort bubbles and many people are not built to deal with that uncertainty and lack of security. Therefore I think each individual should have his own personal spirituality where he/she decides what is important and when something is no longer relevant that it's time to change. So instead of one size fits all, a personalized religion/spirituality that gives the individual meaning and purpose in their life would be in my opinion an interesting solution.

 

[ShewhoShallNotBeNamed]

My personal opinion is that a good religion/spirituality needs to change on a constant basis, because the meaning of life for an individual and/or a group changes over time and means different things to a person at different stages of his/her life. Religions don't change at all unless something major forces them to, and even then they don't change much, which over time makes them outdated. On the other hand humans by our very nature do not like change very much. We like to hear about it but change takes us out of our comfort bubbles and many people are not built to deal with that uncertainty and lack of security. Therefore I think each individual should have his own personal spirituality where he/she decides what is important and when something is no longer relevant that it's time to change. So instead of one size fits all, a personalized religion/spirituality that gives the individual meaning and purpose in their life would be in my opinion an interesting solution.

I agree wholeheartedly. People change all the time and you need to have an outlook on life that allows for that!

 

[tr1age]

I agree wholeheartedly. People change all the time and you need to have an outlook on life that allows for that!

And doesn't think Gays are the devil. Just sayin'

 

[ShewhoShallNotBeNamed]

And doesn't think Gays are the devil. Just sayin'

 

[Ultra CHEZ]

Cheese gives me farts.

They are deadly.

Sorry, Kali.

(By the way, totally didn't look under your forum name, see "Queen of [Hearts]" and immediately think to myself that it should be "Queen of [Farts]." Nope, not at all).

 

[tr1age]

I have always been able to remember things that definitely do not belong to this life or this time, experiences that are mine and yet completely displaced from who I've been told I'm supposed to be. Every time I've experienced my death, I see a little more wholly the threads that connect all of the me's. Every time I've experienced death, it's a little opportunity to integrate a little more of self, intention, inspiration... and to breathe life into it, to let it live and walk in the waking world.

I am interested in knowing what some of your experiences are with this.

 

[Keleynal]

My personal opinion is that a good religion/spirituality needs to change on a constant basis, because the meaning of life for an individual and/or a group changes over time and means different things to a person at different stages of his/her life. Religions don't change at all unless something major forces them to, and even then they don't change much, which over time makes them outdated. On the other hand humans by our very nature do not like change very much. We like to hear about it but change takes us out of our comfort bubbles and many people are not built to deal with that uncertainty and lack of security. Therefore I think each individual should have his own personal spirituality where he/she decides what is important and when something is no longer relevant that it's time to change. So instead of one size fits all, a personalized religion/spirituality that gives the individual meaning and purpose in their life would be in my opinion an interesting solution.

I disagree. I think a good religion needs to be based in truth. I can have huge amounts of faith and good feelings in a set of beliefs, but if those beliefs are based on lies, then it has profited me nothing. Having faith is not enough, it must be put in the right place in order to be effective. There must be action to faith, or it is dead. Life can only come from life. It would be meaningless for me to worship a god that was inanimate, imaginary, or dead.

I believe that there is truth that is truth for all people, in all places, and at all times. More than that, there is a God that is true and unchanging, who can be known and relied upon to follow through on His promises. I have no use for a god or a religion that changes to suit my mood. That's the kind of dangerous behavior that results in Christians feeling justified in preaching hatred (Westbourough Baptist), robbery (most televangelists) or practicing genocide (the crusades). God (the basis of truth) must exist apart from my feelings about Him, whether or not I like Him.

Think people want a belief system that adapts to them because it is comfortable. Hearing that you're a sinner and condemned to an eteernity in hell can be a bitter pill to swallow, especially if it is untempered by an understanding of God's nature and character. That's why Christians get comments like "(Christians) thinks gays are the devil." Jesus didn't come to condemn the world, but to save it. But because the truth is unchanging, God requires us to change and adapt to Him. Not because He hates us, but because He loves us- even when we don't deserve it (Romans 5:8).

A lot of people have a hard time accepting God as a loving, father-like figure. I think that's mostly because we don't like admitting that we need help. It's better on the ego to say that all the answers exist inside of ourselves, or in nature, or in anything other than an all-powerful being that we would have to surrender our lives to. That jump causes many to stumble. The good news is that we can get to know God before we take any kind of "leap of faith."

Trying to put it in a nutshell: Truth is absolute. God is truth. God is love.

 

[tr1age]

Having faith is not enough, it must be put in the right place in order to be effective. There must be action to faith, or it is dead. Life can only come from life. It would be meaningless for me to worship a god that was inanimate, imaginary, or dead.

YOU NAILED IT. Faith to me is lost on those who use it as an excuse to not actually do anything to help humanity. They just wait for the magical poof to heaven and shun those who don't believe.

 

[Dash]

Death had the same affect on me a couple of years ago Tristan.

I'd be going about my day, then mortality would pop into my mind like a hurricane. It'd possess my thoughts for the next few hours. But not in a conscious way. In some strange way that moved beyond words and seemed to hold a grip over my heart.

Dramatic. Strange but true. And that's all despite my beliefs. Which are also a bit strange.

My first "memory" in life isn't a memory at all. It sounds really absurd, but I have the most absolute vivid image of being in an etherial location and actually choosing my path in life. Words cannot describe how things were both solid and not...and the colors...deep enough to fall through when looking at them.

In an sense, I "rolled" my character in this life. So far, I've wound up exactly like that image. And a couple of times a year I'm given small reminders that I'm on the "right" path (For me. This time around).

That is the very first image I remember. Ever. Period.

Implicit in this is an idea that in order to "roll" in this lifetime, I've probably "rolled" in others. If I believe this image a true memory of sorts (I do), then reincarnation is also a impossible to rule out. And yet...this death thing...

Has finally stopped bothering me.

In short: I got back on track with what I believe my life is meant to revolve around. Funny you guys brought up L.A., that's where I live now. And I love it. But that bullshit "Let's go out and pretend we're amazing" cultural facade? I stay way the hell away from it. It has nothing to do with my art. And my art is what keeps me alive.

And people? Close friends?

For me, personally, I stopped looking (very recently) at people in that manner. There are people I can help. Either through legitimately offering my time or energy, or perhaps through just laughter and pleasurable experiences. And then there are people whom I cannot.

Yet.

~Dash

 

[Zevrix]

Spoiler

I disagree. I think a good religion needs to be based in truth. I can have huge amounts of faith and good feelings in a set of beliefs, but if those beliefs are based on lies, then it has profited me nothing. Having faith is not enough, it must be put in the right place in order to be effective. There must be action to faith, or it is dead. Life can only come from life. It would be meaningless for me to worship a god that was inanimate, imaginary, or dead.

I believe that there is truth that is truth for all people, in all places, and at all times. More than that, there is a God that is true and unchanging, who can be known and relied upon to follow through on His promises. I have no use for a god or a religion that changes to suit my mood. That's the kind of dangerous behavior that results in Christians feeling justified in preaching hatred (Westbourough Baptist), robbery (most televangelists) or practicing genocide (the crusades). God (the basis of truth) must exist apart from my feelings about Him, whether or not I like Him.

Think people want a belief system that adapts to them because it is comfortable. Hearing that you're a sinner and condemned to an eteernity in hell can be a bitter pill to swallow, especially if it is untempered by an understanding of God's nature and character. That's why Christians get comments like "(Christians) thinks gays are the devil." Jesus didn't come to condemn the world, but to save it. But because the truth is unchanging, God requires us to change and adapt to Him. Not because He hates us, but because He loves us- even when we don't deserve it (Romans 5:8).

A lot of people have a hard time accepting God as a loving, father-like figure. I think that's mostly because we don't like admitting that we need help. It's better on the ego to say that all the answers exist inside of ourselves, or in nature, or in anything other than an all-powerful being that we would have to surrender our lives to. That jump causes many to stumble. The good news is that we can get to know God before we take any kind of "leap of faith."

Trying to put it in a nutshell: Truth is absolute. God is truth. God is love.

Instead of going into my own rant, I present this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurotheology

 

[Keleynal]

Very cool memory, Dash.

I wonder if I chose my life and if everyone does. If so, how do some people end up with really bad ones? Strung out of drugs, mean people, people who are abused or victimized. Maybe we can only see the path, not the pitfalls, detours, and derailments.

I think it'd be nice if we could pick our deaths. I want to be shot by a jealous husband.

 

[Keleynal]

Instead of going into my own rant, I present this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurotheology

An interesting field of study, but it looks like science has a long way to go before it can quantify how spiritual experiences physically effect a person. I wonder if this will lead to people saying "See? Physical proof that the supernatural does exist and can affect change in the natural!" or "See? Spiritual experiences are more than random neurons firing in a given pattern!" We'll have peace in the middle east before this question is settled.

 

[Zevrix]

An interesting field of study, but it looks like science has a long way to go before it can quantify how spiritual experiences physically effect a person. I wonder if this will lead to people saying "See? Physical proof that the supernatural does exist and can affect change in the natural!" or "See? Spiritual experiences are more than random neurons firing in a given pattern!" We'll have peace in the middle east before this question is settled.

The brain is very powerful. No, we don't have all the answers, but there is strong evidence that the brain creates these religious feelings for one reason or another. If you want to argue that "God made my brain do that," then go ahead, but it tends to lead people in unsatisfied circles.

I find neuroscience to be fascinating and plan to study neurobiology when I go back to school next fall.

 

[Keleynal]

The brain is very powerful. No, we don't have all the answers, but there is strong evidence that the brain creates these religious feelings for one reason or another. If you want to argue that "God made my brain do that," then go ahead, but it tends to lead people in unsatisfied circles.

I find neuroscience to be fascinating and plan to study neurobiology when I go back to school next fall.

I find it fascinating, too! It's well-documented that physical stimuli causes certain areas of the brain to react and interpret the data as pain, pleasure, or whatever. It makes sense that since supernatural experiences are perceived, they also would cause a measureable reaction in the brain. I don't think it's any more reasonable to say that religious expeirences are created (or originate) in the brain, than the feeling you get when pricking your finger is created there. Interpreted, certainly- but something caused the stimulation. I don't think this line of study could prove or disprove if the cause was God or emotional responses or some form of pathology, but learning more about how our brains work sounds like a fantastic career.

 

[Dash]

Very cool memory, Dash.

I wonder if I chose my life and if everyone does. If so, how do some people end up with really bad ones? Strung out of drugs, mean people, people who are abused or victimized. Maybe we can only see the path, not the pitfalls, detours, and derailments.

I think it'd be nice if we could pick our deaths. I want to be shot by a jealous husband.

Shot by a jealous husband? LoL. Interesting.

It sort of makes you question the legitimacy of things. I was homeless this past January. It turned out to be one of the best experiences I've had as an adult. Taught me a great many things. Is this something I may have signed up for before I was born? No idea.

The one psychic I've ever met whom I considered completely legitimate had a thing about "pacts". She mentioned that certain people, before birth, make a sort of pact that they'd meet and affect one another in a certain manner. For the experience of it.

When she told me this, I was in a relationship with a girl. According to her, the entire reason we met was because we were together in a previous life and it was prematurely ended. Unexpected death was implied. So we agreed to meet again in this life.

I thought that was interesting. A month prior to having met that girl I had a dream with her in it. Clear as day. The events of that particular dream had such an affect on me that I woke up in tears and drove home for a week. Nothing I've ever dreamt has come close to that before or after. But she was in it. And now this random psychic said we were predestined to meet briefly? Weird.

So, maybe there's a jealous husband in your future?

Edgar Cayce has a lot written about this sort of thing. Although my favorite book on the topic is a book written by a man named Dr. Brian Weiss called Many Lives Many Masters.

Nutshell: Dr. Weiss was a psychologist who was (if memory serves me) a non believer in reincarnation. He meets a patient, begins to have her do very deep meditations. Records them. Many MANY psychological disorders present. During her psychological regressions, meant to only take her to childhood, she apparently regresses into previous lives and re-tells key events. Often including her deaths. Discovering many neurosis are linked to the experiences in previous lives. (I.E. a fear of water turns out to be related to her drowning in a previous life. On reliving and confront it via regression, no more fear)

I'll stop there. The more I talk about this, the more out there I get. LoL.

 

[Flux]

First, I have to remark that I must have stumbled upon a very special community. It’s not every day I see a thread like this, where many religious/nonreligious beliefs have come into contact with each other over many messages, with no offensive or dismissive comments.

Dash, while I generally distrust psychics, your experience is fascinating. I may be asking something a little too personal, but are you still in a relationship with that girl? Sorry if I am overstepping some boundaries.

In regard to this topic, I have also been recently riddled with this kind of dread, even as a Christian. I have doubts, and every so often, I panic—what if death means nothing? Even if I am remembered, that has to be temporary: in the end, the people who remember me are going to die, and everything I do will amount to nothing. Depressing, and I don’t know how to deal with this besides distract myself with other things (if you can even call that dealing with it). I feel like on the surface at least I believe in everything Keleynal described, but deep down, I may be looking for some sort of greater evidence. Not that I think that faith is unjustified, but, as a scientist (or hopefully getting there, still in college and it seems to be getting more difficult XD), I guess I just like having evidence.

As for neurotheology: I find anything that tries to mix science and religion fascinating, but I’m not sure if there is a solid conclusion that can be arrived at from that approach. It just seems that while science can only deal with observables, most religions (or at least the ones I have a slight inkling about) have at least some unobservable factors in them, such as a God that no one can fully fathom, which are generally the sticking points. So it seems to me that there isn’t anything that science can do to prove or disprove many key parts of religions. And if there is a problem in the observables, I imagine that it wouldn’t be hard to extend something from the unobservables to account for that.

 

[Dash]

Dash, while I generally distrust psychics, your experience is fascinating. I may be asking something a little too personal, but are you still in a relationship with that girl? Sorry if I am overstepping some boundaries.

Not at all.

Nope. Ended rather badly actually. Though she is still to date the great romance of my life despite some 5-6 years having since passed.