Selfishness...

[TIG]

Every single thing that a human does has some selfishness in it. There is no such thing as a fully non selfish act. If you can think of one post it here and I will explain how there is at least a tiny bit of selfishness in it.

This discussion stems from the idea that societal laws stems from the tug of war between selfishness and empathy.

If selfishness is too loaded of a word, think of it as self serving instead.

 

[tr1age]

Helping an old lady across the road.

 

[TIG]

Helping an old lady across the road.

makes you feel good or proud to do it. At least a little bit. The selfishness is your enjoyment or pride.

 

[tr1age]

Buying Duct Tape.

 

[TIG]

Buying Duct Tape.

Duct tape is the single most useful thing in the world. There is nothing non selfish about buying it.

 

[Diremongoose]

Assisting injured wildlife, in the middle of the Australian outback. Where the supplies you used jeopardize your own survival.

 

[PsionicFox]

Looking after my missus when she's sick.

Spending 24 hours in a hospital to keep my injured cousin company until his parents could arrive.

 

[Diremongoose]

Looking after my missus when she's sick.

Spending 24 hours in a hospital to keep my injured cousin company until his parents could arrive.

Those two are easy. The first increases your chance of reproduction, the second increase the survival of your genes. Both selfish acts biologically.

 

[PsionicFox]

Those two
Those two are easy. The first increases your chance of reproduction, the second increase the survival of your genes. Both selfish acts biologically.

The first one, fair enough.

The second one? I'm adopted. Not my genes.

 

[TIG]

Assisting injured wildlife, in the middle of the Australian outback. Where the supplies you used jeopardize your own survival.

Still makes you feel good about yourself since it aligns with your ideal of the right thing to do.

You answered fox's so I'll leave it.[DOUBLEPOST=1372822733,1372822673][/DOUBLEPOST]

The first one, fair enough.

The second one? I'm adopted. Not my genes.

So the second one could be gaining brownie points with your family unit to be cashed in at a later date.

 

[Diremongoose]

Still makes you feel good about yourself since it aligns with your ideal of the right thing to do.

Feeling good about yourself? This is an act of biological insanity. This act cannot benefit you in any way. Feeling good is in no way a selfish thing when you do it at the cost of your own existence.

 

[TIG]

Why would you do it if it wasn't justified in your head to be the right thing to do. Doing it will at least keep you from triggering bad feelings. Avoiding those feelings is still the selfish act even if you end up feeling bad about dying from using your supplies.

Selfishness isn't always about sane biological decisions. It can be about emotional decisions too.

 

[MyLittlePony]

Helping people learn a game that I intend to play competitively as a team. (I know I'm a selfish bastard, but I also love helping people!).. yeah.. spoon-fed.

 

[Diremongoose]

As for Psionic's second example, your genetics and upbringing command you to help those that are in your extended familial group. This behavior will result in reciprocal care from the same family. Even if you aren't directly related, you still share the same genetics for family care, and are preserving that gene you share in the population, is therefore selfish.

 

[TIG]

Helping people learn a game that I intend to play competitively as a team.

By teaching them you are learning more yourself (selfish) and building them up to play better with and win more (selfish) and instilling in them a sense of obligation to repay you for your work (selfish).

 

[Tribune]

Wait, how are you defining selfishness? Because in my mind... it's not as simple as something that benefits yourself. Is eating selfish? Is living selfish? Some aspects of it certainly, but do you draw a line between necessary for life and benefiting oneself? And when does doing something to help yourself turn selfish? Anything and everything that could benefit you or only when it is to the detriment of others? Personally, I usually use selfish to describe behaviour that is thoughtless and/or detrimental to others that prioritizes one's own happiness/comfort/need over another's.

 

[TIG]

Wait, how are you defining selfishness? Because in my mind... it's not as simple as something that benefits yourself. Is eating selfish? Is living selfish? Some aspects of it certainly, but do you draw a line between necessary for life and benefiting oneself? And when does doing something to help yourself turn selfish? Anything and everything that could benefit you or only when it is to the detriment of others? Personally, I usually use selfish to describe behaviour that is thoughtless and/or detrimental to others that prioritizes one's own happiness/comfort/need over another's.

I define selfish in this context as anything that has any benefit to you. My original point was that there is no act a human can do that lacks some tiny amount of self serving context.

 

[MyLittlePony]

By teaching them you are learning more yourself (selfish) and building them up to play better with and win more (selfish) and instilling in them a sense of obligation to repay you for your work (selfish).

No obligation, but I accept paypal. (but really though, I never seek repayment on what I give freely)

 

[TIG]

The idea here is that to get along in a society a person is pulled between self serving acts and acts that serve others. Only I feel that humans are built so that there is no act they will perform that has no benefit whatsoever for themselves.[DOUBLEPOST=1372823897,1372823809][/DOUBLEPOST]

(but really though, I never seek repayment on what I give freely)

Sure but there are still benefits to you, like learning more, and feeling good that you helped others.

 

[Diremongoose]

Why would you do it if it wasn't justified in your head to be the right thing to do. Doing it will at least keep you from triggering bad feelings. Avoiding those feelings is still the selfish act even if you end up feeling bad about dying from using your supplies.

Selfishness isn't always about sane biological decisions. It can be about emotional decisions too.

If survival is the ultimate selfish act (survival can be defined outside of biology for this purpose), then anything that trumps it must not be selfish. We as humans can make poor decisions that are self-less, and believe them utterly. Feeling bad about not helping an injured creature and feeling bad while dying is effectively suspending biological selfishness, resulting in the inability to make use of emotional selfishness. By ending the capacity for further selfishness you are committing a selfless act.