Selfishness...

[Keleynal]

Well I think in my post I proposed a pretty good scenario.. selflessness in the purest sense would esentially be an act of insanity with no meaning to the person.

Usually they have a reason for doing it, it's just that reason doesn't make any sense to rational people, or even to them. But I would suspect that there is some sort of desire fulfillment taking place.

I'm perfectly willing to accept that people can act selflessly though, insane or otherwise.[DOUBLEPOST=1372891559,1372891524][/DOUBLEPOST]

Mother Teresa?

She did it for the bling.

data:image/jpeg;base64,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

 

[Crake]

Mother Teresa?

Don't get my started on her.. she is as selfish as they come

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/2008/05/mother-teresa/

 

[Keleynal]

Don't get my started on her.. she is as selfish as they come

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/2008/05/mother-teresa/

I take from that article that she was far from perfect, no shocker there. Also, she fiercely toed Catholic political lines. It is also not uncommon for prominent Catholic figures to befriend "bad" people, trying to follow Christ's example of having that reputation. Doesn't mean she condoned everythign those people ever did, even if she pointed out the one or 2 good things that could be said about horrible people.

Not justifying any of it, but I don't think it takes as much away from her as that ravenously anti-religious site would have us believe.

 

[Crake]

I take from that article that she was far from perfect, no shocker there. Also, she fiercely toed Catholic political lines. It is also not uncommon for prominent Catholic figures to befriend "bad" people, trying to follow Christ's example of having that reputation. Doesn't mean she condoned everythign those people ever did, even if she pointed out the one or 2 good things that could be said about horrible people.

Not justifying any of it, but I don't think it takes as much away from her as that ravenously anti-religious site would have us believe.

Yeah I should have grabbed a better source, it was just the first thing I could find. I'll try to get something more objective if better details are wanted.

 

[Ailo]

In college I did a paper/persuasive speech on one of the 7 deadly sins. I chose greed and decided to persuade my peers that Mother Teresa was greedy therefor sinful. Man oh man you should have seen some of the faces in the class.

 

[TIG]

The only motive I can think of is that the man must have loved the killer at least as much as he loved the wife and daughter. And if it is selfish to protect someone you love by dying in their place, then I guess that was selfish.

I would argue that in that case he is still being selfish because he is choosing the path with the least amount of emotional pain for himself. Even to the exclusion of justice being done.

Unless it is truly selfless, but that was ruled as impossible from the beginning. This is a puzzle with no solution. Diremongoose hit it on the head.

When you say ruled as impossible from the beginning, I assume you mean how I said I don't believe there are any truly selfless acts. My belief isn't the end all be all. If someone can come up with a scenario that disproves my belief I will gladly say so.

Crake, the insane person will still have motivations to do what he does, even if it doesn't make sense to us. I argue that at least a little bit of that motivation is driven by selfishness.

The real problem with trying to prove or disprove the point here is that all these are theoretical made up acts by us. We (I) have to guess at the motivation behind it.

Mother Teresa?

That is a person not an act.

 

[Diremongoose]

While we may have to simply disagree on this argument, I'll attempt it one more time


Any action is on a scale with the amount of selfishness distributed between selfish and non-selfish (we'll ignore the term altruistic for this argument).

This line shows the minimum amount, the 'baseline' amount of selfishness that a human can possibly exhibit when acting.

This is the minimum amount, no human being can be less selfish than this amount. The value to the left of this does not exist.


So we remove the part that does not exist:

Now that the scale of this line has been adjusted so it is relevant to human beings, non-selfish actions can occur.

 

[Ludakrit]

First of all, your definition of selfish is making constructing an argument against it impossible. You have redefined the word selfish to effectively mean "self interest". That is quite simply not what selfish is generally defined as via numerous dictionaries. Here are a few of the accepted definitions:

self·ish

[sel-fish] Show IPA
adjective

1.​

devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare,etc., regardless of others.

2.​

characterized by or manifesting concern or care only for oneself: selfish motives.

: concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself : seeking or concentrating on one's own advantage, pleasure, or well-being without regard for others2

:arising from concern with one's own welfare or advantage in disregard of others<a selfish act>

The first is from Dictionary.com, and the second from Merriam Webster. The argument of yours is being tainted by using the term "selfish", to mean what YOU define it as, not as what the commonly accepted definition is. For instance, say my friend and I are hiking in some woods known to be home to a pack of vicious wolves. He gets hurt, and can no longer walk anymore. The light is rapidly fading, and I know that soon night will be here, and I decide to do battle with the wolves to attempt to ensure his survival. The majority of people would say that I am acting in an altruistic manner, and defending a fellow human from harm, but due to your re-defining the term you are turning a commonly thought of heroic deed into a negative.

Lets look at what the opposite of selfish means; Altruism.

altruism

  Use Altruism in a sentence​

al·tru·ism​

​

[al-troo-iz-uhm] Show IPA​

noun​

1.​

the principle or practice of unselfish concern for or devotion to the welfare of others (opposed toegoism ).

2.​

Animal Behavior . behavior by an animal that may be to its disadvantage but that benefits others ofits kind, as a warning cry that reveals the location of the caller to a predator.

So, in the commonly accepted definition world, there is an opposite to being selfish, but in your world there isn't and you sweep all altruistic behavior under the selfish label. This is why your argument is invalid. You don't get to define words, they already have been defined, you get to use them not randomly redefine them at your whim to suit the needs of your agenda.

Finally, there is quite a bit of well documented altruistic behavior in animal species not just humans. Working together to accomplish goals and developing mutually beneficial relationships with others (which you would say are selfish, since both parties are benefiting, which in fact is the complete opposite of the standard definition of selfish in which you are not regarding the other party at all!) is a quite successful survival strategy.

Finally your argument (Psychological egoism) is a circular one:

Psychological egoism has been accused of being circular: "If a person willingly performs an act, that means he derives personal enjoyment from it; therefore, people only perform acts that give them personal enjoyment." In particular, seemingly altruistic acts must be performed because people derive enjoyment from them and are therefore, in reality, egoistic. This statement is circular because its conclusion is identical to its hypothesis: it assumes that people only perform acts that give them personal enjoyment, and concludes that people only perform acts that give them personal enjoyment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_egoism

 

[TIG]

I am not trying to re define the word. I have also conceded that selfishness may not be the perfect word to describe what I am saying, but I know of no other word that would be more precise.

Ludakrit the problem with your argument is that by defining the word you are attaching it to the whole thing (act) that it describes. I am not labeling an act selfish or non-selfish. All I am saying is that even with altruistic acts there is some small element of selfishness in it.


Dire. Saying an act has some selfishness in it does not negate the fact that the act would be called altruistic or non-selfish. I edited your pic to illustrate

On the left side of the line the act in question is called altruistic, but it still has some selfishness in it. When you cut off the extreme left of the line and the arrow to redefine the definition, what you are essentially doing is choosing to ignore the selfish motives.

I say that even in the most altruistic acts there is an element of selfishness in it because the act fulfills a need in the actor. Duty, sense of right, love, want, etc. The selfishness is in the fact that they would be happier to some small degree to do the thing instead of going against their instinct or will. This small selfishness does not negate the altruism of the act.

 

[Ludakrit]

You are labeling acts as selfish or non-selfish

The widower is being selfish in that he is satisfying his sense of duty, or decency or whatever to take the place of the criminal. As convoluted and unlikely that situation is, his motivation is to fulfill some need of his at least in part for this scenario.

Bam, labeled. You re-defined the word to mean something it doesn't and are applying circular reasoning.

I define selfish in this context as anything that has any benefit to you.

Since all humans are inextricably linked to everything upon the planet, benefiting any thing benefits you in creating a better world. This is not selfish when we use the appropriate definition of the word. Your definition misconstrues the word entirely and redefines it and then makes an argument upon it. True selfishness is a taking away, or a disregard from others, not trying to do the right thing and helping others in need. Helping others is altruistic.

 

[Diremongoose]

Dire. Saying an act has some selfishness in it does not negate the fact that the act would be called altruistic or non-selfish.

I agree, but that is not my point. Let's move on from this argument as I do not refute it.

On the left side of the line the act in question is called altruistic, but it still has some selfishness in it. When you cut off the extreme left of the line and the arrow to redefine the definition, what you are essentially doing is choosing to ignore the selfish motives.

Yes, that is exactly what I am proposing:

For our species, the part of line left of my arrow is irrelevant to our discussion - it is a fundamental part of our the apparatus that we think with and it is is therefore this baseline 'aspect of selfishness' is not definable as being different from acting. This is merely a refinement of the earlier argument about selfish being the same as acting, except it only applies to the baseline amount of selfishness present in all actions.

I argue that the minimum aspect of selfishness inherent in a human being to make any act should not be considered an aspect of selfishness at all, as there is nothing further to the left to compare it to. I am arguing for you to move your starting point for the measurement of where the aspect of 'selfishness' starts, to start measuring the aspect of selfishness at a level above the 'background noise' of our biology. It is only above this point at which meaningful observations can be made.

A better way to say this is that - "human actions must be inherently selfish by the sub-conscious biological framework used to make decisions, however a non-selfish act can occur when all motives except for the subconscious baseline are pure."

We cannot control our actions 100% as we are not independent of the biological hardware used to make a decision. Within the scope of our free-will we are capable of making non-selfish actions even as those actions are tainted by our baseline selfishness caused by non-compliant biological hardware.

 

[Ludakrit]

 

[Ludakrit]

The pentagon is developing a vaccine for religion. 0:35-5:00

 

[Keleynal]

Because why try to understand something when you can just lobotomize it?

And also, how was that relevant to the discussion about selfishness? Posting content is all fine and good, but what does it mean?

 

[Ludakrit]

Oh, I think they are quite well informed actually. And they aren't doing brain surgery either. I think the point is people are blowing themselves and others up in the name of religion.

 

[Sasquatauch]

Every single thing that a human does has some selfishness in it. There is no such thing as a fully non selfish act. If you can think of one post it here and I will explain how there is at least a tiny bit of selfishness in it.

This discussion stems from the idea that societal laws stems from the tug of war between selfishness and empathy.

If selfishness is too loaded of a word, think of it as self serving instead.

I remember talking about this one time when we got into a discussion about whether Mother Teresa did things out of true benevolence or if there was some level of self-satisfaction that went along with it. I think it varies from person to person on the amount of satisfaction you get, if any. The only thing we could really come up with was if the act was out of true instinct. For example, a mother's baby is trapped under a burning car. There have been instances where people can obtain super-human strength in order to save another human being. So the question becomes, did she save it out of fear of loss or out of natural instinct to protect her baby? Again, I think it'll vary from person to person, but I feel the majority will be because of natural maternal instinct. She's not thinking of what she can get out of it, she just knows that her baby is in trouble and that it needs help.

 

[Ludakrit]