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MMO [TAB] Raiding - The Basics

ToxicAsF

Over Analystical Extreme Gambler
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RAIDING

I wanted to make a post about how TAB will be handling raiding in the future of Wildstar. Disclaimer: We are not a hardcore raiding guild. We are not aiming for world firsts, but we DO want to aim for progression. I want people who are raiding to be dedicated to it, show up when needed and be prepared to do what YOU need to do. I don't want people to be carried. I want everyone to work towards the common goal of killing bosses.

With this said, I plan on making two nights a week raid nights, planning for 3.5-4 hours of raiding. This means I will need people who can be online and be ready on a continual basis. Spots will be given to those who can prove themselves to

1. Be on time (Current estimate for time, invites at 7:30 PM EST, pull at 8:00PM EST)
2. Be prepared (gear, consumables, strategies)
3. Willing to learn
4. Able to take criticism (when needed)

People who meet these requirements will be given priority spots to raids. I do want more "casual" raiders to come whenever possible. Realistically, we will not have the same 20/40 people every raid every week. There will be a core group of players that make up the base of raiders, and then some casuals that mix in and fill the gaps. YOU need to decide what kind of a raider you will be, and keep your expectations within that realm. If you want to be a core raider, PROVE IT!


Also, remember that WS is a trinity based game. This means we will need...

TANKS - Main/Off - We will need people who are willing to dedicate themselves to the roles of Main Tanks and Off Tanks. MT's tend to be in control of the big bad brute bosses for a majority of the time. Off tanks tend to focus more on adds and assist the MT when needed to "absorb" certain abilities (HATEFUL STRIKE ANYONE?!). Either way, you will be responsible for making sure the rest of the raid takes as little damage as possible.

Healers - Tank/Spot - We will need people who take the job of keeping everyone's health as high as possible. Usually healers end up having slightly different roles and will be communicated within the group of healers. Tank healers tend to focus on the Main Tank and Off Tanks through the entire fight. Constant, powerful heals can be a little boring sometimes, but it's a heavily needed job. If the MT dies, typically the raid dies. Spot/Off healers tend to cover the rest of the raid. Usually in the form of chain/aoe/group/HoT healing. If all the DPS die, we can't kill the boss!

DPS - Ranged/Melee - These are the people that will make up most likely 75% of the raid. You will want to do as much damage as possible while taking as little damage as possible. You will be careful of not doing too much damage as to "take aggro" from the tanks. It's a fun balancing game of "I'm the best" and "I'm still alive!". Pretty straightforward really. DON'T STAND IN THE FIRE.


WHAT WE NEED – We will be looking for a few things from some very dedicated people. In order to make raiding work, some form of hierarchy is usually established. In the past, it was been..

Raid Leader > Officers / Raid Assists > Class/Role Leads > Raiders.

Raid LeaderOne Person - The big cheese. This is the person who knows what needs to happen and puts pressure on the entire raid to make it happen. Usually this person is stern and makes shit happen. If he tells mumble to quiet, you get quiet. If this person tells you to stop sucking, stop sucking. Most of the time the RL is there to make the ship sail smoothly. It's a hard job and quite frankly, very few are great at it. It's a person of respect and demands it, but it's also because s/he has earned it. Granted, if the person abuses it, no one will respect the RL. It's a balancing act that, quite frankly, is very difficult. Quite frankly a little elitist, but for good reason. S/he has 39 other people s/he has to lead.

Raid Assists/ OfficersTwo or Three people - These are the people that make sure shit is done before the Raid Leader needs it done. Typically these are the people that make sure everything is good to go behind the scenes. Also, these people should have as much knowledge as the RL so in case of a situation, they can cover for the Raid Leader. Sometimes instead of having a Raid Leader, there will be a good group of co-leaders, which would fit into this category as well.

Class/Role Leads – These are the people who really know their class. Seriously, I mean really know their class. These are the people that should be the ones who raiders go to for advice. These people should be available both in and out of game for questions. If there is the ability to create private chat channels in game, this would be something a class lead should create so that all the people who are that class can join and discuss in-game about tactics, strategies, gearing options, and everything else under the sun. It's also a great way to distribute who is doing what in a raid scenario so we don't spam mumble and guild/raid chat. Leads will be able to say “Alright, we have 5 healers. First one heals X, second one heals Y, Z spot heals, etc.” It can also be used to organize rotations, buffs, priority, and everything else needed that should be taken care of in a smaller dynamic.

Raiders – The driving force. The sheer numbers. The people that are the bulk of the organization and need to be trained for success. There are people who lead, and people who follow. Without followers, there's not need for the leaders. Everyone should be responsible for their own gear, repairs, attunements, consumables, and at least reading basic strategies. Check in with their class/role leaders and make sure you're prepared for raiding. If we have too many raiders, we won't be able to take everyone. Being more prepared, on-time and ready will help secure a spot in the raiding teams. It's up to you to secure your own spot. We're not a super hardcore raiding guild, but we are approaching raiding with a hardcore mentality. We want to be successful, and that requires a lot of people who also want to be successful and will work towards the goals that are set in front of them.

Casuals - You will be the gap fillers. You will not be expected to show up every single raid, but if you want to raid you should make yourself readily available to do so. You will have the same requirements as the Raiders, such as be responsible for their own gear, repairs, attunements, consumables, and at least reading basic strategies. You will be rewarded for your efforts, but remember that the more dedicated people may be rewarded more frequently for their efforts. We will do our best to reward members as equally as possible in relation to their contribution. And with that...


Gear Distribution - This is something us officers have been debating for over a month now. Seriously, massive posts about different styles of gear distribution. We have researched, argued, debated, and really got pretty heated about it. So we have come to a decision.

WE WILL OPEN THE DISCUSSION TO THE RAIDERS.
We want to hear what YOU want. The decision will be left up to the Raid Leader/Officers, but I do want to hear peoples opinions. I will open a separate forum specifically for this, and I want to hear about your history, expectations, and what you think will be FAIR for EVERYONE. Rewarding people for their efforts as best as possible for all of their combined efforts. Gear distribution very commonly causes drama, discontent, and frustration. We want to minimize this (and if possible eliminate it) to the best of our abilities. It can usually be fixed with a tight knit community, such as we have here, but I'm realistic. We're human. We will be emotional after working hard, and not everyone will be rewarded every time we kill a boss with a piece of gear (which is one of the driving forces of wanting to raid). Hence why we want a regulated, open, and FAIR system.

We have talked EPGP, Open/Silen bid Auction DKP, Suicide Kings, and Officer Loot. But I want to hear from YOU. Discuss it here - link coming soon
 
WE WILL OPEN THE DISCUSSION TO THE RAIDERS.
We want to hear what YOU want. The decision will be left up to the Raid Leader/Officers, but I do want to hear peoples opinions. I will open a separate forum specifically for this, and I want to hear about your history, expectations, and what you think will be FAIR for EVERYONE. Rewarding people for their efforts as best as possible for all of their combined efforts. Gear distribution very commonly causes drama, discontent, and frustration. We want to minimize this (and if possible eliminate it) to the best of our abilities. It can usually be fixed with a tight knit community, such as we have here, but I'm realistic. We're human. We will be emotional after working hard, and not everyone will be rewarded every time we kill a boss with a piece of gear (which is one of the driving forces of wanting to raid). Hence why we want a regulated, open, and FAIR system.

We have talked EPGP, Open/Silen bid Auction DKP, Suicide Kings, and Officer Loot. But I want to hear from YOU. Discuss it here - link


Gyoin - just wanted to let you know the "link" for *discuss it here* is not working/broken.

was wanting to yell in there!!! :alien12: hehe
 
Gyoin - just wanted to let you know the "link" for *discuss it here* is not working/broken.

was wanting to yell in there!!! :alien12: hehe

Thanks for that! We haven't opened up the discussion thread yet, which is why there is no link. It is coming soon though, as we have discussed it extensively and will want to know what everyone thinks before decisions are made.
 
Thanks for that! We haven't opened up the discussion thread yet, which is why there is no link. It is coming soon though, as we have discussed it extensively and will want to know what everyone thinks before decisions are made.
Gotcha Zakis, was unaware that no thread was created yet.....
 
I am SO excited about raiding again. The last X number of MMOs I've tried have consisted of struggling to find anything to do at max level, and in Wildstar I'm thinking that there's no way I'm going to be able to do it all without living in game. I hope that means we will be playing it for years. Game jumping sucks.

I think raiding will always be my number 1 priority. I'm thrilled that you mentioned 2 nights of scheduled raiding. I know I can commit to that and still have some time to give if we're on a progression push or trying to beat a nerf or something.

Have I mentioned how freaking excited I am?
 
I am SO excited about raiding again. The last X number of MMOs I've tried have consisted of struggling to find anything to do at max level, and in Wildstar I'm thinking that there's no way I'm going to be able to do it all without living in game. I hope that means we will be playing it for years. Game jumping sucks.

I think raiding will always be my number 1 priority. I'm thrilled that you mentioned 2 nights of scheduled raiding. I know I can commit to that and still have some time to give if we're on a progression push or trying to beat a nerf or something.

Have I mentioned how freaking excited I am?


I cant wait myself. I didn't realize how much I missed raiding until I did not have the challenge in GW2.
 
Gyoin - just wanted to let you know the "link" for *discuss it here* is not working/broken.

was wanting to yell in there!!! :alien12: hehe

Yes, sorry, we are holding off an "official" open discussion until we know more details on the actual loot drop system.
 
When it comes to gear, I see it as a means to an end -- It's not the primary reason I play the games. But it gets me stats I need to keep progressing. I will have input for the loot system though. :)

I do have one concern. In my past experience, filling in gaps in the raid with "casual" members, almost always meant that you were filling spots with a player who was undergeared for the content we were facing. I don't feel like "casual" means "bad," so that's not an issue. But casual almost always means that they don't have as good of gear as the dedicated raiders. Do you foresee using the casual players to fill in multiple slots per raid, or are you planning on recruiting a full roster of raiders and only filling in on the rare occasion that a raider is missing?

I'm not anti-casual or anything. But I am competitive. If we are being held back from hitting an enrage timer or struggling because someone is getting one-shot by a mechanic that wouldn't if they had proper gear, I can see myself getting annoyed very quickly. I think with telegraphs and the changing raid encounters, skill will probably play a much larger role than gear, but gear will still be very important once you hit a certain level of progression.
 
I'm excited for this. I'm hoping my schedule will allow me to make most of the raids! My goal is to raid somewhat hardcore and PvP on the side, but depending on how work turns out I may be flipping that haha. We'll see. Either way, I'm sure we will all have a blast!
 
When it comes to gear, I see it as a means to an end -- It's not the primary reason I play the games. But it gets me stats I need to keep progressing. I will have input for the loot system though. :)

I do have one concern. In my past experience, filling in gaps in the raid with "casual" members, almost always meant that you were filling spots with a player who was undergeared for the content we were facing. I don't feel like "casual" means "bad," so that's not an issue. But casual almost always means that they don't have as good of gear as the dedicated raiders. Do you foresee using the casual players to fill in multiple slots per raid, or are you planning on recruiting a full roster of raiders and only filling in on the rare occasion that a raider is missing?

I'm not anti-casual or anything. But I am competitive. If we are being held back from hitting an enrage timer or struggling because someone is getting one-shot by a mechanic that wouldn't if they had proper gear, I can see myself getting annoyed very quickly. I think with telegraphs and the changing raid encounters, skill will probably play a much larger role than gear, but gear will still be very important once you hit a certain level of progression.


Personally I will be someone who is a casual raider. I will definitely not be undergeared :p

I just cant say I will be there 2 night for sure because of my job. I am more than happy to always fill a spot if I am available and you need someone. I would say this is what Gyoin means when he says casual. I still have to be geared if I want to go, I need to know what the fights are for the most part, and when called upon I help out knowing I may not get the gear because a full-time raider may need it more.
 
I would PREFER an entire roster of 40, dedicated, hardcore, balls to the wall raiders. Problem is, I'm realistic. This may not be the case by the time we start raiding. Like I said, I want to give those that are there every raid, on time, and prepared priority on a raid slot. They earned them. But we may not have 40 of them. Hence the need for casuals.

I just want people to realize that this is the system I want in place. If you want to raid, I do ask for some form of dedication. It's going to be difficult and I don't want to have to cancel raids due to lack of people because everyone is "meh, not in the mood" or something. Y'know?
 
From my experience if you wanted a roster of a certain size team its best to have roughly 35 to 50% more than that, due to RL issues that come up, unavailability, no shows, etc...
 
From my experience if you wanted a roster of a certain size team its best to have roughly 35 to 50% more than that, due to RL issues that come up, unavailability, no shows, etc...

Yeah. It's a tough cookie to get these things going and be successful. Hence my posts now. Launch is a while off, but I want people to be aware of how these things work (especially if they never 40m raided). It's a lot of work just to organize and make sure all the nuts and bolts are in working order.
 
Personally I will be someone who is a casual raider. I will definitely not be undergeared :p

I just cant say I will be there 2 night for sure because of my job. I am more than happy to always fill a spot if I am available and you need someone. I would say this is what Gyoin means when he says casual. I still have to be geared if I want to go, I need to know what the fights are for the most part, and when called upon I help out knowing I may not get the gear because a full-time raider may need it more.


I guess that I'm working off the assumption that raid gear is going to be better (and progress more) than what is available to those who don't raid. That's standard in MMO's with raiding. It could be different in Wildstar, as we have zero details about this, but I'm doubtful that it will be. That means that those of us who attend every raid will end up outpacing those who don't. It also means that by the start of the second tier of raiding, chances are that casual raiders will be very far behind, in terms of gear progression, simply because gear of that caliber isn't available to them and they don't raid regularly enough to keep up. If that's not a problem in Wildstar, then great! But it has been an issue in every other MMO I've raided in.

Also, to touch on roster size, the amount of "bench" you need is very dependent on any attendance requirements. If there are literally zero attendance requirements then 30-50% might be about right (which means you have a raid roster of 60 people :eek:). But my guild in WoW had a 75% attendance requirement to be ranked raider and we normally over-recruited by 10-15% and on the very rare chance we didn't have enough online to do the raid, we just grabbed a random from LFG chat or we grabbed a guild member who felt like raiding that night. But I could probably count the amount of times that happened in 4ish years of raiding, on one hand. :p
 
It all depends on what times we go with for raiding, seeing as I work overnights. That will determine my level of raiding.
 
Quickly: we will be recruiting with size and need in mind. If it all works out we WILL have a 40 man ready to go every-time. There will not be a casual outlook on attendance. Attendance will value into drops and your spot for the next raid. Mind you this is for the hardcore raids. Those who can and want to be hardcore will be.


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