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We're living '1984' today

Keleynal

Jesus Freak
We're living '1984' today

by Lewis Beale

(CNN) -- It appears that the police now have a device that can read license plates and check if a car is unregistered, uninsured or stolen. We already know that the National Security Agency can dip into your Facebook page and Google searches. And it seems that almost every store we go into these days wants your home phone number and ZIP code as part of any transaction.

So when Edward Snowden -- now cooling his heels in Russia -- revealed the extent to which the NSA is spying on Americans, collecting data on phone calls we make, it's not as if we should have been surprised. We live in a world that George Orwell predicted in "1984." And that realization has caused sales of the 1949, dystopian novel to spike dramatically upward recently -- a 9,000% increase at one point on Amazon.com.
Comparisons between Orwell's novel about a tightly controlled totalitarian future ruled by the ubiquitous Big Brother and today are, in fact, quite apt. Here are a few of the most obvious ones.

Telescreens -- in the novel, nearly all public and private places have large TV screens that broadcast government propaganda, news and approved entertainment. But they are also two-way monitors that spy on citizens' private lives. Today websites like Facebook track our likes and dislikes, and governments and private individuals hack into our computers and find out what they want to know. Then there are the ever-present surveillance cameras that spy on the average person as they go about their daily routine.

The endless war -- In Orwell's book, there's a global war that has been going on seemingly forever, and as the book's hero, Winston Smith, realizes, the enemy keeps changing. One week we're at war with Eastasia and buddies with Eurasia. The next week, it's just the opposite. There seems little to distinguish the two adversaries, and they are used primarily to keep the populace of Oceania, where Smith lives, in a constant state of fear, thereby making dissent unthinkable -- or punishable. Today we have the so-called war on terror, with no end in sight, a generalized societal fear, suspension of certain civil liberties, and an ill-defined enemy who could be anywhere, and anything.

Doublethink -- Orwell's novel defines this as the act of accepting two mutually contradictory beliefs as correct. It was exemplified by some of the key slogans used by the repressive government in the book: War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength. It has also been particularly useful to the activists who have been hard at work introducing legislation regulating abortion clinics. The claim is that these laws are only to protect women's health, but by forcing clinics to close because of stringent regulations, they are effectively shutting women off not only from abortion, but other health services.

Newspeak -- the fictional, stripped down English language, used to limit free thought. OMG, RU serious? That's so FUBAR. LMAO.

Memory hole -- this is the machine used in the book to alter or disappear incriminating or embarrassing documents. Paper shredders had been invented, but were hardly used when Orwell wrote his book, and the concept of wiping out a hard drive was years in the future. But the memory hole foretold both technologies.

Anti-Sex League -- this was an organization set up to take the pleasure out of sex, and to make sure that it was a mechanical function used for procreation only. Organizations that promote abstinence-only sex education, or want to ban artificial birth control, are the modern versions of this.

So what's it all mean? In 1984, Winston Smith, after an intense round of "behavior modification" -- read: torture -- learns to love Big Brother, and the harsh world he was born into. Jump forward to today, and it seems we've willingly given up all sorts of freedoms, and much of our right to privacy. Fears of terrorism have a lot to do with this, but dizzying advances in technology, and the ubiquity of social media, play a big part.

There are those who say that if you don't have anything to hide, you have nothing to be afraid of. But the fact is, when a government agency can monitor everyone's phone calls, we have all become suspects. This is one of the most frightening aspects of our modern society. And even more frightening is the fact that we have gone so far down the road, there is probably no turning back. Unless you spend your life in a wilderness cabin, totally off the grid, there is simply no way the government won't have information about you stored away somewhere.

What this means, unfortunately, is that we are all Winston Smith. And Big Brother is the modern surveillance state.

Link to article- http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/03/opinion/beale-1984-now/index.html?hpt=hp_t4

What do you think? Are we living in an Orwellian society or is this article wearing a tinfoil hat?
 
I is afraid:
tin-foil-hat.jpg


Back to the topic. Whoever thought that we´ve not been spied, well now you know. I´ve been sure that everybody was under mandatory surveillance after 9/11. Now I´ve got proof. What you can do if you care: Use only aliases. Never write anything private, talk to people directly in RL. If you think it will help, sign a online petition and get disappointed that it didn´t work.
Get a typewriter like the Kremlin (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-to-typewriters-to-avoid-computer-leaks.html)
 
I guess the only thing I can say to this is, no matter what amount of surveillance occurs with our without our permission, if you don't do anything wrong it shouldn't bother you. I mean, in a world where we're it's so easy to ignore marketing (commercials, email spam, phone calls), in the business world it doesn't matter.

Government wise, all the spying and evil-doing that they may do or not do, it doesn't really affect me personally. I pay my taxes, have no malicious intent towards anyone, and just live my life. If they want to watch me / monitor me, okay. Not going to find anything worthwhile, and maybe they'll move to the next person (and have that moment in the Simpson's movie of "WE FOUND ONE WE FINALLY FOUND ONE").

The argument of our rights and privacy and all that jazz... Doesn't exist in this day and age anyways. I've just accepted it and moved on, but I can understand why people would be upset. I just personally don't really care.
 
I guess the only thing I can say to this is, no matter what amount of surveillance occurs with our without our permission, if you don't do anything wrong it shouldn't bother you. I mean, in a world where we're it's so easy to ignore marketing (commercials, email spam, phone calls), in the business world it doesn't matter.

Government wise, all the spying and evil-doing that they may do or not do, it doesn't really affect me personally. I pay my taxes, have no malicious intent towards anyone, and just live my life. If they want to watch me / monitor me, okay. Not going to find anything worthwhile, and maybe they'll move to the next person (and have that moment in the Simpson's movie of "WE FOUND ONE WE FINALLY FOUND ONE").

The argument of our rights and privacy and all that jazz... Doesn't exist in this day and age anyways. I've just accepted it and moved on, but I can understand why people would be upset. I just personally don't really care.


And if the government makes a law that bans online gameing and going through chats to find out who did it to put these people in internment camps, that fine with you?
And before you say this didn´t happen. Hitler used the list of Homosexuals that was created around 1920 to put these to interment camps.

If a database is there, it will be used. It´s not the system that is the problem, but the people who use it.
 
And if the government makes a law that bans online gameing and going through chats to find out who did it to put these people in internment camps, that fine with you?
And before you say this didn´t happen. Hitler used the list of Homosexuals that was created around 1920 to put these to interment camps.
Odds of that happening in an American society? I mean really. That's just taking one extreme and replacing it with something that's impractical. The worst thing that could happen to online gaming in America is some form of "limitation" (like in China).
 
Odds of that happening in an American society? I mean really. That's just taking one extreme and replacing it with something that's impractical. The worst thing that could happen to online gaming in America is some form of "limitation" (like in China).

Let´s think of somebody more realistic. How about everybody who owns guns? Or who drinks alcohol? Or who has another woman except for his wife?
 
While I feel similarly to Bruce on an individual level - if they want to watch me play games and look at videos of puppies that's fine; albeit a waste of taxpayer dollars. However, I do agree that these violations of privacy are abhorrent and I'm sure unnecessary. I don't think we will see any change in our safety as a result of these things. Unfortunately, there's always going to be a seedy side to the government and there's not a whole lot we can do about it short of moving to Iceland. You guys want to move to Iceland?
 
While I feel similarly to Bruce on an individual level - if they want to watch me play games and look at videos of puppies that's fine; albeit a waste of taxpayer dollars. However, I do agree that these violations of privacy are abhorrent and I'm sure unnecessary. I don't think we will see any change in our safety as a result of these things. Unfortunately, there's always going to be a seedy side to the government and there's not a whole lot we can do about it short of moving to Iceland. You guys want to move to Iceland?

If you ever move there, let me know. A friend and me are planing to go there.
 
Shit. I lost my entire spiel I typed out.

It's just silly to think of any of these things. I don't want to argue scenarios. Tell me when it happens and I'll say something about it.
 
The problem with being OK with the spying under the current circumstances is that circumstances change. Nothing lasts forever, not even Constitutional democracy. Pax Romana lasted 1000 years. We're on track to fall much faster. Not necessarily in my lifetime or my grandchildren's lifetime, but it will happen. When it does, there will be a wonderful surveillance program already in place, no doubt much more sophisticated than what it is now.

We are expected to trust our government. Shouldn't that go both ways? If you spy on your girlfriend by checking her phone, tapping her calls, hacking her facebook account, won't that upset her? You can swear you are doing it because you love her and want to protect her. Tell her she shouldn't care if she isn't doing anything wrong. You'll get dumped and possibly a restraining order.

In any healthy relationship, trust must be mutual. The government says "Trust us. Don't ask questions, just believe that we have your best interests at heart" while reading our emails, eavesdropping on our phone calls, and tracking our movement. This isn't a recipe for a stable relationship.
 
I don't see the government as a relationship, but more as a business partner that I was forced to work with and has superiority over me. It's always been much easier to just do as I'm told and leave work at work, enjoy my personal time and make sure it doesn't affect my work.
 
The problem with being OK with the spying under the current circumstances is that circumstances change. Nothing lasts forever, not even Constitutional democracy. Pax Romana lasted 1000 years. We're on track to fall much faster. Not necessarily in my lifetime or my grandchildren's lifetime, but it will happen. When it does, there will be a wonderful surveillance program already in place, no doubt much more sophisticated than what it is now.

We are expected to trust our government. Shouldn't that go both ways? If you spy on your girlfriend by checking her phone, tapping her calls, hacking her facebook account, won't that upset her? You can swear you are doing it because you love her and want to protect her. Tell her she shouldn't care if she isn't doing anything wrong. You'll get dumped and possibly a restraining order.

In any healthy relationship, trust must be mutual. The government says "Trust us. Don't ask questions, just believe that we have your best interests at heart" while reading our emails, eavesdropping on our phone calls, and tracking our movement. This isn't a recipe for a stable relationship.


This is pretty much what I wanted to say, together with the last sentence of my former post: The System is not the problem, the people who use it is.
 
I don't see the government as a relationship, but more as a business partner that I was forced to work with and has superiority over me. It's always been much easier to just do as I'm told and leave work at work, enjoy my personal time and make sure it doesn't affect my work.

In the dictionary under "Drone", there is a picture of Bruce.
 
I don't see the government as a relationship, but more as a business partner that I was forced to work with and has superiority over me. It's always been much easier to just do as I'm told and leave work at work, enjoy my personal time and make sure it doesn't affect my work.


I see it differently. The government is there for me, for things that I cannot do on my own. For example building streets, running hospitals and so on. For this I pay taxes. But for the government spying on me? Nope.
 
In the dictionary under "Drone", there is a picture of Bruce.
Not gonna lie, it's pretty true.

I'm just looking out for myself in this world of politics. Make sure I can afford my taxes, stay out of trouble, and live with a hint of ignorance in my retirement. It's simple.
 
I see it differently. The government is there for me, for things that I cannot do on my own. For example building streets, running hospitals and so on. For this I pay taxes. But for the government spying on me? Nope.

o God, keep them out of the hospitals. /cry
 
Wow this thread blew up quick. But when i read the title i want to sing "1985" by Bowling for Soup. /end derailment

Its not like the government keeps track of our phone records, watches people on camera, uses personal devices as listening devises... right?... wonder why that guy is in Russia
 
Wow this thread blew up quick. But when i read the title i want to sing "1985" by Bowling for Soup. /end derailment

Its not like the government keeps track of our phone records, watches people on camera, uses personal devices as listening devises... right?... wonder why that guy is in Russia

He is there because USA would have to put him in prison for a looooong time, that nobody else get´s the idea to do the same.
 
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