What kind of Athiest are you?

[Hyomicca]

If an Entity exists with the capability to forge all of reality from its sheer will and it wanted me to believe, I would. Its that simple. The fact that i don't means That if hypothetically it Does exist then it either does not care if i do or it wants me to not believe.

Except that argument doesn't agree with the Christian view of God or even human existence.

 

[Dawkinzz]

Except that argument doesn't agree with the Christian view of God or even human existence.

How?

 

[Hyomicca]

How?

The point of human life was free will. God already had beings created that were forced to love and serve Him (the angels). God created humans to allow them to choose to believe in or love Him.

 

[Crake]

The point of human life was free will. God already had beings created that were forced to love and serve Him (the angels). God created humans to allow them to choose to believe in or love Him.

If free will is God's design then why the need to convert non-believers? Isn't it our God given right to be Atheists? Shouldn't that be accepted as part of God's design? I understand how you could justify the education of persons that could not normally access the information, not that I agree with that on a personal level, but I think trying to convert or preach to someone who is informed, and stating that this is the only way to be saved, would be making an assumption that goes against the original assertion that God gave us free will.

 

[dainjre]

I want to preface this with one statement, I am not religious.

Now that we've gotten past that, obviously Christians believe in creationism, correct? So Aethists believe in what... big bang? How exactly was the universe created? Lets say you do believe in the Big Bang... as I understand it you believe that there was a gigantic ball of matter that exploded and now here we are millions of years later. Sure, I buy that, definitely plausible to me, as is creationism, I neither know nor care about either, I just want to submit this one thing... if matter can be neither created nor destroyed, where did the initial matter from the big bang come from?

 

[Hyomicca]

If free will is God's design then why the need to convert non-believers? Isn't it our God given right to be Atheists? Shouldn't that be accepted as part of God's design? I understand how you could justify the education of persons that could not normally access the information, not that I agree with that on a personal level, but I think trying to convert or preach to someone who is informed, and stating that this is the only way to be saved, would be making an assumption that goes against the original assertion that God gave us free will.

Partially. But the other part of it is that, even though God wants you to choose via free will, He still wants you to choose to believe in Him. Thus, the order He gave His followers to witness to the unsaved. It's your right to be Atheist, but that's not necessarily God's ideal plan for you.

 

[Crake]

Partially. But the other part of it is that, even though God wants you to choose via free will, He still wants you to choose to believe in Him. Thus, the order He gave His followers to witness to the unsaved. It's your right to be Atheist, but that's not necessarily God's ideal plan for you.

So basically it is free will with a MAJOR caviat. You can do what you want, but if you don't believe in me you are wrong. What is the point in free will if that is the case? Why give us the ability to decide between right and wrong? So we can torture ourselves and doom ourself to eternal damnation? If God is loving, why is that part of the plan?

 

[Hyomicca]

My Having Free will in no way Impedes a hypothetically omnipotent entities ability to make me believe something. I have personally made people believe things without stealing away a persons free will. Everyone has. happens all the time. every day. every where. An omnipotent and omniscient entity would be perfect at doing such a thing.

*side note, The Christian view of God doesn't agree with the Christian view of God.* To be fair that Book has been taken apart, put back together, rewritten, edited and Shuffled more times then anyone can keep track of. That is of course to be expected of a book 1400ish years old.

"sorry this is why i don't like talking about this in polite company. It always comes off way more hostile then I intend.

To be fair, I am of the opinion that most Christians don't understand their own religion. There's a lot more complexity to it than most people would care to admit and could even turn off a lot of people. God does manipulate (I don't much like the use of that word in this situation, but it is what it is) people into believing in Him. That's partially done through human interaction, occasionally miracles (or extremely convenient coincidences, if you will), and even through tragedy or bad events.

So basically it is free will with a MAJOR caviat. You can do what you want, but if you don't believe in me you are wrong. What is the point in free will if that is the case? Why give us the ability to decide between right and wrong? So we can torture ourselves and doom ourself to eternal damnation? If God is loving, why is that part of the plan?

We're starting to get into the weird semantics of my own personal belief in the entire situation, but that's the nature of Christianity, I suppose.

My view of Hell is a place with the absence of all traces of God's influence. Which... may or may not be horrible for an Atheist to experience. I can't tell you, as I've never been there. Most Christians would tell you that that is a horrible place, full of pain and suffering with no hope of redemption. Sure, there is a lake of fire mentioned in the book of Revelations, but most of that book is symbolism and honestly, beyond my personal understanding, as I have never really studied it.

God is loving because He wants to save everyone. The other part of this is that God is also... hrmmm... Justice, I think, is a good word. He will punish you for doing wrong. The other part of this is that everyone has done wrong. He's already spelled out that the consequence of this is death. He doesn't enjoy dealing out this punishment, but He cannot fail in His role as justice. So this is where the whole be saved or go to Hell situation arises. Jesus was sent to serve the death punishment already (He did go to hell for a brief time). So, basically, if you accept this as truth, you can reap the benefits of Jesus serving your punishment for you. If you don't, your punishment has not yet been served and you'll have to serve it yourself.


I know my response was probably fairly poorly written. I'll try to explain it better if anything was confusing or poorly worded.

Also, thanks for this discussion. I enjoy having to look into my faith and reevaluate what I believe. It's refreshing and makes me feel like I'm not just blindly following a religion because I was told to.

 

[Crake]

Spoiler

To be fair, I am of the opinion that most Christians don't understand their own religion. There's a lot more complexity to it than most people would care to admit and could even turn off a lot of people. God does manipulate (I don't much like the use of that word in this situation, but it is what it is) people into believing in Him. That's partially done through human interaction, occasionally miracles (or extremely convenient coincidences, if you will), and even through tragedy or bad events.

We're starting to get into the weird semantics of my own personal belief in the entire situation, but that's the nature of Christianity, I suppose.

My view of Hell is a place with the absence of all traces of God's influence. Which... may or may not be horrible for an Atheist to experience. I can't tell you, as I've never been there. Most Christians would tell you that that is a horrible place, full of pain and suffering with no hope of redemption. Sure, there is a lake of fire mentioned in the book of Revelations, but most of that book is symbolism and honestly, beyond my personal understanding, as I have never really studied it.

God is loving because He wants to save everyone. The other part of this is that God is also... hrmmm... Justice, I think, is a good word. He will punish you for doing wrong. The other part of this is that everyone has done wrong. He's already spelled out that the consequence of this is death. He doesn't enjoy dealing out this punishment, but He cannot fail in His role as justice. So this is where the whole be saved or go to Hell situation arises. Jesus was sent to serve the death punishment already (He did go to hell for a brief time). So, basically, if you accept this as truth, you can reap the benefits of Jesus serving your punishment for you. If you don't, your punishment has not yet been served and you'll have to serve it yourself.


I know my response was probably fairly poorly written. I'll try to explain it better if anything was confusing or poorly worded.

Also, thanks for this discussion. I enjoy having to look into my faith and reevaluate what I believe. It's refreshing and makes me feel like I'm not just blindly following a religion because I was told to.

But what I don't understand is, why is that justice needed at all? Why do we need to be given a choice and then be judged? It seems pointless to create humans, then let them squabble and start judging their actions. If Hell is not such a bad place, why seperate between the two? If someone I loves dies and goes to Heaven and I go to Hell, wouldn't that mean I would never see them again? It seems cruel and pointless to me. In this case free will isn't so much a privilage as it is an arbitrary right given to us in order to be judged. I just don't understand why it would exist in the first place if this is the case.

Side note, thanks for being cool with this, I love a good debate as well! haha

 

[Hyomicca]

But what I don't understand is, why is that justice needed at all? Why do we need to be given a choice and then be judged? It seems pointless to create humans, then let them squabble and start judging their actions. If Hell is not such a bad place, why seperate between the two? If someone I loves dies and goes to Heaven and I go to Hell, wouldn't that mean I would never see them again? It seems cruel and pointless to me. In this case free will isn't so much a privilage as it is an arbitrary right given to us in order to be judged. I just don't understand why it would exist in the first place if this is the case.

Side note, thanks for being cool with this, I love a good debate as well! haha

It may be worth noting, that when humans were originally created, they were more animal-like in nature and completely unaware of good and evil/morality/all that jazz.

Well, in my beliefs... this is kind of where things get... undesirable? Ha ha.

God is the definition of holiness. You cannot define holy, as he is that definition. To be with him (as in, the afterlife), you must be cleansed, in some form or another from any sort of unholiness. He has no tolerance for sin whatsoever. He cannot commit it, cannot be around it. God purposefully separates himself from sin. This is why I mentioned that hell is the complete absence of God. So, likewise, a sinful person cannot go to dwell with him in Heaven. Also, due to his holy nature, it is in his nature to combat evil/sin. Thus, the justice.

God made people because he was lonely and wanted beings that chose to love him and weren't forced to love him. Then, through the "Fall of Man", humans were imparted with the knowledge of good and evil. Humans were then allowed to choose to be evil or to be good. Then, this is where the nature of his being holy started forcing him to separate some people from him.

(I hope that made sense. Reading over this, I'm not entirely satisfied with my word choice.)

Hell is a "bad" place. It will continue to hold all the unholiness and evil in the world. Heaven will be free from all of that. That's... basically what it amounts to.


Edit: And no problem, btw. I imagine you get lots of crappy or emotional answers if you ask these questions normally.

 

[Crake]

Spoiler

It may be worth noting, that when humans were originally created, they were more animal-like in nature and completely unaware of good and evil/morality/all that jazz.

Well, in my beliefs... this is kind of where things get... undesirable? Ha ha.

God is the definition of holiness. You cannot define holy, as he is that definition. To be with him (as in, the afterlife), you must be cleansed, in some form or another from any sort of unholiness. He has no tolerance for sin whatsoever. He cannot commit it, cannot be around it. God purposefully separates himself from sin. This is why I mentioned that hell is the complete absence of God. So, likewise, a sinful person cannot go to dwell with him in Heaven. Also, due to his holy nature, it is in his nature to combat evil/sin. Thus, the justice.

God made people because he was lonely and wanted beings that chose to love him and weren't forced to love him. Then, through the "Fall of Man", humans were imparted with the knowledge of good and evil. Humans were then allowed to choose to be evil or to be good. Then, this is where the nature of his being holy started forcing him to separate some people from him.

(I hope that made sense. Reading over this, I'm not entirely satisfied with my word choice.)

Hell is a "bad" place. It will continue to hold all the unholiness and evil in the world. Heaven will be free from all of that. That's... basically what it amounts to.


Edit: And no problem, btw. I imagine you get lots of crappy or emotional answers if you ask these questions normally.

Haha, yeah people tend to get really emotional about these things. I think I got everything you were saying and hopefully understand!

But, I guess the point I'm trying to get at is a theory I have had. I believe that this innate need of "God" to be acknowledged, and to be "let in to our heart" etc. comes off to me as a very mortal reflection of human fears and feelings. It is a reflection of how we feel about ourselves. In that sense, we are God and God is we. God was (in my opionion) created initially to explain things that were unexplainable, as well as to diminish fears of unknown such as death, and what happens after? It answers the question of "why were we created, is there a greater purpose?" We as humans don't want to accept our own animalistic properties. We don't understand the universe, and as such we fear it. This is why science and religion often clash; certain things that had previously been explained through the use of a deity are being more understood, and the religious that don't want to accept that end up clashing with the ideals of science. This is why there is the science vs. religion conflict.

Now, as time went on and more and more 'lore' was created around the concept of "God," this deity began to pick up traits that, to me, are largely just humans wanting a more humanoid deity. As such, this more humanoid deity began reflecting our own feelings of indaquacy right along side it's mystical omnipotence. It is, to me, illogical that any divine all knowing being would want so badly to be acknowledged, and would dissaciate from those that do not acknowledge. This to me, screams of human mortality. If lonliness is the issue, then is heaven really so great after all? If the all mighty creator can be lonley up there or feel inadequate, then I can't imagine it is this perfect existance we achieve after death. It sounds very humanistic and mortal to me.

That being said, my view of how a "God" would really be is much less personal then the generally accepted view of God. I think a true God would be perfectly satisfied with humans acting with good morals and good will toward others. Admiring the beauty of life and nature would be more then enough; there wouldn't be this "ACKNOWLEDGE ME, FOR I AM THE LORD" sentiment.

I am of the opinion that, given our current course, religion (at least as we know it) will become an antiquated thing. Much like our views on the ancient Roman/Greek/Norse mythology - it becomes more of a fairly tale, understood as being a 'primitive' (not trying to belittle anyone's beliefs here, just the best word to us) system of beliefs that is obviously not true.

I also think that everyone needs to stop saying, "MY WAY IS TRUE, HEAR ME OR BE JUDGED" and start speaking more humbly on the subject. If everyone believed everything we knew about "God" or "Religion" to be an ASSUMPTION rather then FACT and admit that we, as humans, probably don't know a whole lot, I think the world would be a better place.

To me what first turned me off to religion was just how tainted with human flaw it was. Perhaps if I had met people like yourself or Keleynal when I was growing up I would have a different opinion.

I should state as a disclaimer that I do believe Religion causes more hate then it does love. I believe that religion clashes with science and inhibits the growth of knowledge. Just my personal opinion, I won't back it up with a zillion reasons why I am just making it known how I feel (I'm a pretty open person and I don't like to hide anything, especially when having a discussion like this!)

Edit: I just wanted to add, I also REALLY dislike when people say things like "God wants xxxx, God says xxx". To me it seems sacriligious to make these assertions when EVERYTHING we know has been handed down to us from OTHER HUMANS. None of us have directly spoken to God. You can believe what you want and make your own assertions, but I don't think it's right to assume we know anything about God, at least not verbatum. I think if you tote around an assertion about God he would be pretty peeved if it was based on something that a human just decided to toss in there. Always be wary, and admit that we know nothing.

Edit Edit: Sorry, no more after this haha. I just wanted to pose a question: What if someone is born in a region where Christianity (or whatever religion for that matter) is unable to reach them. If it is impossible to reach them in their life time, what does that mean for them? They are not going to just come up with this stuff on their own. Are they just as guilty as the Atheist that is educated and knows enough about religion to make a decision? Are they less guilty because they are ignorant to it?

 

[tr1age]

I'd say somewhat 3 and 6. Not all of each but a good chunk of em. But mostly because I don't consider myself an atheist. Nor do I disbelieve in God, I am just not believing in him either.

 

[Keleynal]

Good stuff from everyone here.

I would say that I disagree that God was lonely, nor do I believe that God created man to meet any sort of need in Himself. God is complete and perfect. He has no needs. So why are we here? It is His pleasure to spread love far and wide. We were made to experience His love. This is my current theory, you understand. There was a time not long ago that I also held that God desired companionship, but that didnt jive with His completeness, so here I am.

Something that is important to remember is that God did not create the world in the form that it exists today. It was originally perfect, with no sin or death. So the answer to "I don't understand how a good God could create such a messed up world" is that He didn't. He put mankind into a perfect situation and man decided to use free will not to submit to God, which would have insured eternal happiness, but rebellion, which resulted in the fallen world we now occupy. At that point, God could have eradicated all of creation and started over, but He didn't. He chose the much more difficult path of redemption.

We can second guess that decision all we want, or say that we don't think it makes sense. But He is God and we are not.

Whether you believe or not, none of us are compelled or forced. No one can force anyone else to choose to do something, much less believe in something. You can scare them, threaten them, bribe them, torture them, or force their limbs to move like a puppet, but you cannot force or compel a choice or a belief.

God made it that way because without choice true love cannot exist. So that's why there is a hell. If there is no alternative, then there is no choice, and there is no love; it's just a sham. But if God exists and hell is real and God provides a path of redemption; then we have a clear choice and we can choose to accept God's love.

To come to Crake's question, the reason we tell others about God is that they deserve a choice. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. But how can they hear if no one tells them? Is God capable of revealing Himelf through creation and other means? You bet. But the best, most reliable, and most accurate way for God to reveal who He is is through His Word and the testimony of His children.

Evilcat, you can continue to insist that the Bible isn't reliable, but I insist that it is in every way relevant to my faith complete, perfect, infallible, and true to the original intent of God when He inspired the authors to write it. I think our positions are equally impossible to prove.

 

[Hyomicca]

Spoiler

Haha, yeah people tend to get really emotional about these things. I think I got everything you were saying and hopefully understand!

But, I guess the point I'm trying to get at is a theory I have had. I believe that this innate need of "God" to be acknowledged, and to be "let in to our heart" etc. comes off to me as a very mortal reflection of human fears and feelings. It is a reflection of how we feel about ourselves. In that sense, we are God and God is we. God was (in my opionion) created initially to explain things that were unexplainable, as well as to diminish fears of unknown such as death, and what happens after? It answers the question of "why were we created, is there a greater purpose?" We as humans don't want to accept our own animalistic properties. We don't understand the universe, and as such we fear it. This is why science and religion often clash; certain things that had previously been explained through the use of a deity are being more understood, and the religious that don't want to accept that end up clashing with the ideals of science. This is why there is the science vs. religion conflict.

Now, as time went on and more and more 'lore' was created around the concept of "God," this deity began to pick up traits that, to me, are largely just humans wanting a more humanoid deity. As such, this more humanoid deity began reflecting our own feelings of indaquacy right along side it's mystical omnipotence. It is, to me, illogical that any divine all knowing being would want so badly to be acknowledged, and would dissaciate from those that do not acknowledge. This to me, screams of human mortality. If lonliness is the issue, then is heaven really so great after all? If the all mighty creator can be lonley up there or feel inadequate, then I can't imagine it is this perfect existance we achieve after death. It sounds very humanistic and mortal to me.

That being said, my view of how a "God" would really be is much less personal then the generally accepted view of God. I think a true God would be perfectly satisfied with humans acting with good morals and good will toward others. Admiring the beauty of life and nature would be more then enough; there wouldn't be this "ACKNOWLEDGE ME, FOR I AM THE LORD" sentiment.

I am of the opinion that, given our current course, religion (at least as we know it) will become an antiquated thing. Much like our views on the ancient Roman/Greek/Norse mythology - it becomes more of a fairly tale, understood as being a 'primitive' (not trying to belittle anyone's beliefs here, just the best word to us) system of beliefs that is obviously not true.

I also think that everyone needs to stop saying, "MY WAY IS TRUE, HEAR ME OR BE JUDGED" and start speaking more humbly on the subject. If everyone believed everything we knew about "God" or "Religion" to be an ASSUMPTION rather then FACT and admit that we, as humans, probably don't know a whole lot, I think the world would be a better place.

To me what first turned me off to religion was just how tainted with human flaw it was. Perhaps if I had met people like yourself or Keleynal when I was growing up I would have a different opinion.

I should state as a disclaimer that I do believe Religion causes more hate then it does love. I believe that religion clashes with science and inhibits the growth of knowledge. Just my personal opinion, I won't back it up with a zillion reasons why I am just making it known how I feel (I'm a pretty open person and I don't like to hide anything, especially when having a discussion like this!)

Edit: I just wanted to add, I also REALLY dislike when people say things like "God wants xxxx, God says xxx". To me it seems sacriligious to make these assertions when EVERYTHING we know has been handed down to us from OTHER HUMANS. None of us have directly spoken to God. You can believe what you want and make your own assertions, but I don't think it's right to assume we know anything about God, at least not verbatum. I think if you tote around an assertion about God he would be pretty peeved if it was based on something that a human just decided to toss in there. Always be wary, and admit that we know nothing.

Edit Edit: Sorry, no more after this haha. I just wanted to pose a question: What if someone is born in a region where Christianity (or whatever religion for that matter) is unable to reach them. If it is impossible to reach them in their life time, what does that mean for them? They are not going to just come up with this stuff on their own. Are they just as guilty as the Atheist that is educated and knows enough about religion to make a decision? Are they less guilty because they are ignorant to it?

You make some good points. I've even toyed with the idea before that God is merely a 5th dimensional being that is no longer limited by the boundaries of time. But... that's not really relevant to this subject.

You're correct though. It is kind of foolish to believe that any of us can understand God at all. Which is kind of a big hurdle to overcome, since humans, by nature, want to understand everything they can. I am sad that Christianity has been used as a tool of hate over the years (and still is to do this day). It clashes with the beliefs of the religion itself. Illogical.

You're also right about the "MY WAY IS TRUE, HEAR ME OR BE JUDGED" mindset. Part of the problem is that Christianity teaches that as the truth. However, I don't think it's in anyone's best interest to act that way. I'd never get through to people preaching to them like that. Good sense is a good idea. It would also help if there weren't Atheists that also spoke in that mindset.

About your question at the end: This is kind of one of those... unanswered questions. Personally, I believe that they're okay. Kind of like kids who die before/at birth or before they're old enough to understand. But really, it's one of those issues that only God knows the answer to.

Keleynal, you make a good point. God may have created people just to spread his love. I've toyed with both ideas.

 

[Diremongoose]

I've moved from 1 to 2 over the last few years. I think I have a fairly firm grasp of the arguments on both sides, and short of keeping up to date on the latest information, I have no need to debate the issues further, except when some comment or post is particularly ignorant or self-deluded...or someone hasn't already addressed it already. I enjoy the odd observance of 6 at my discretion, but am very much opposed to people forcing them on others, especially on me.

 

[Disprezzo]

3) Seeker-agnostic
This group is made up of people who are unsure about the existence of a God but keep an open mind and recognize the limits of human knowledge and experience.
Silver and Coleman describe this group as people who regularly question their own beliefs and “do not hold a firm ideological position.”
That doesn't mean this group is confused, the researchers say. They just embrace uncertainty.

This is the best description I've ever read of my own thoughts on religion and atheism.
The theory of the Big Bang and Evolution does not satisfy me in any way shape or form, I really think we are way off on a realistic answer to the beginning of life.
The bible / new testament do not convince me either at all, to me they are just philosphical books that should be used to learn important life lessons and help humans to live in harmony (most of the time).
I really feel that a convincing and final answer to the "beginning of life" question is still to be found.

I am too ignorant on what other religions/cultures state so I cannot judge them, thus I keep on Catholicism and my own country only in the arguement below.

What I would like to say though is that at a social level I really think that a moral rule set imposed by relgion can be helpful. From my country's experience I can say that the last two generations have seen a HUGE rise in teen pregnancy, teen murder, teen illegality and a disregard of human life in general and this is mostly due to a loss of morality that was previously given by the Christian culture. In other words, the government/state has not been able to replace the Catholic church in teaching moral values to youths (who are now mostly aetheist), they (the government) are not up to the task in creating harmony in the comunity through a 'scientific morality'.
Also, I truly think that putting human beings at the same level of animals, and removing an after death "reward" for acting within the rules on earth can in many cases make "unsuccesful" human beings act in a negative and disharmonious way. Let's say that you "fail" at life, and you do not have the strenght to react and fight, well in this case without the thought of something 'positive' happening after your death, you might end up doing something crazy as you have absolutely nothing to lose. In such cases, I think religion still has its place in a modern community, even if I don't believe in it, I still think that its a good tool to control the masses and avoid a degeneration of dishearted human beings. (I am a cynical bastard). :shock:

 

[Euchale]

I say there might be a god or there might be no God. But even if there is a God (I don´t care if christian, muslim, hindu God, because they are different) why would I want to believe in him/her? For me I see nothing to be gained by believing in somebody who does not care about me. If I´m in need and pray, I might feel better about myself, but does this really help you?
Who has prayed and got food in their stomach? Who has prayed and survived a fire that was burning down the house he is in? Why does it not care about how we treat other people or how we treat animals, which were also created by god?

I can see that religion is an important part in our society. It is needed for forming ethics/morals. It is needed to provide a place where poor and rich meet on the same field. It is needed to control the masses. But for me it just doesn´t feel right. By discussion this can also be achieved.
And the main problem I have with religious movements is that they always say that their religion is the right one and every other religion is wrong.

Now what atheist am I? Somewhere around 4+5.

Also I am reading a book right now called Black Mass from John Gray. It is a very difficult read but well written. He talks, among other things, about how modern religion came into existence. There was the prophet Zarathustra who simply stated: Every human is capable of doing good and bad things. The definition of what is good and bad is embedded in each of us. This was the most peaceful religious movement there has ever been.
Then religion came along and took this statement and said:"Only god knows what is good or bad". And this is what caused a lot of bad things to happen. Because people suddenly were no longer responsible for their own actions. They could say:"God wills it!" and then it was no longer their action. It was an action that was done in Gods will.



Edith says: Also I wonder. Do you hate a person enough that you wish this person an ENTIRETY in hell with now way to get back to god?
If somebody did something stupid once in their live, are they not allowed to get a second chance?
Because if god is free from sin, once you sinned once you are unable to get to god.

 

[Otakebi]

Well I am a 5 and I guess 6. When it comes to religion I suffer from apathy, I really don't care for what you believe in and how they go about it. The only time I start to care about religion is when it starts to effect the world around it. It really annoys me how we are in a day and age, where we are many religions and lots of people who are not religious, but we are still governed by religion. Such things as shops only allowed so many opening hours on a Sunday, and certain holidays of the year (amongst others). Preachers are also a problem, its nice to see they are passionate about it, but telling someone 14 times will not change their mind so stop! People have a right to seek religion on their own terms not on yours. Religion is good because it brings hope and comfort to some, but it also a dangerous tool causing most wars. Due to humanity being such a complex race and everyone thinks about things differently, religion will never come under one roof. Its just a real shame that all religions cant accept each other, and realise they all share the same goal, to give their followers hope and comfort, to help them enjoy life.

 

[TIG]

The problem I have with this whole poll and original article is that it lumps atheists and agnostics in together. I identify as an agnostic and I feel that atheism is a completely different animal.

My non belief has room for the possibility of other explanations that haven't been proven to me yet. I see atheism as a belief system that rejects the existence of God. To me there is a huge gap there.

Other than that, good debate going on here.

Evilcat

sorry this is why i don't like talking about this in polite company. It always comes off way more hostile then I intend.

This is the rant forum. You can express your opinion here any way you want as long as it isn't personal attacks. Hostility is allowed when you are trying to get your point across as long as it is directed toward the subject matter. If you are worried you are crossing a line, just re-read the rant forum rules and you will be good to go.

Feel free to express yourself here as you need to.

 

[Keleynal]

It's very cool to see that some atheists here are working through their feelings in much the same way that I do about Christianity. I guess that makes sense since every belief system is complex and can cause paradoxes. I just hadn't thought of atheism in a segmented way before.