Government shuts down: Deadline reached

[Red Omen]

Someone who uses all their money to make a business and chooses not to buy health insurance to save money is taking a calculated risk. That's on them. I say that's stupid, but that's a matter of opinion. Should the government force that person to pay for health insurance even though it would mean they could no longer afford their business? I think that should be the individual's choice, not government's mandate.

It's on them, and everyone else who has to pay their emergency room bill when that's the only recourse after they've been unable to afford preventative care.

The government does not force businesses with under fifty employees to provide health care.

 

[Keleynal]

It's on them, and everyone else who has to pay their emergency room bill when that's the only recourse after they've been unable to afford preventative care.

The government does not force businesses with under fifty employees to provide health care.

They are not forced to provide it for their employees, but they are mandated to have personal coverage. I wasn't speaking about the coverage provided through the business.

And also, under ObamaCare, we are going to have the exact same problem of people's health care bill being footed by others. Especially for healthy and lower income people, the penalty for not having insurance is less than buying the insurance. Also, since they cannot be denied coverage due to pre-existing conditions, why would a healthy person buy it? They'd be better off paying the penalty until they get diagnosed with cancer or some other serious illeness, and THEN getting in. That's why carriers are raising their rates- it's open season on adverse selection.

 

[Red Omen]

And also, under ObamaCare, we are going to have the exact same problem of people's health care bill being footed by others.

Isn't that how insurance works? Healthy people pay into a service that predominantly supports unhealthy people? Because we live in a society, and we function better in general when everyone around us isn't dying or going bankrupt trying not to die?

One of the reasons that we pay so much for health care is that people cannot afford preventative care, which is much cheaper than a catastrophic trip to the emergency room. The ACA is designed to help with this; whether it actually will, I can't say. Again, it's due to a lot of variables, so I'd recommend watching the John Green video I posted a page ago.

And again - the individual mandate was proposed by conservatives. The Heritage Foundation. This should have bipartisan support.

I feel like I'm mostly repeating myself.

 

[Keleynal]

Isn't that how insurance works? Healthy people pay into a service that predominantly supports unhealthy people? Because we live in a society, and we function better in general when everyone around us isn't dying or going bankrupt trying not to die?

One of the reasons that we pay so much for health care is that people cannot afford preventative care, which is much cheaper than a catastrophic trip to the emergency room. The ACA is designed to help with this; whether it actually will, I can't say. Again, it's due to a lot of variables, so I'd recommend watching the John Green video I posted a page ago.

And again - the individual mandate was proposed by conservatives. The Heritage Foundation. This should have bipartisan support.

I feel like I'm mostly repeating myself.

Insurance works with the law of large numbers. You charge people premiums based on how big of a risk they pose. People who are already sick with major diseases are not insurable because if they hop into the system immediately needing huge amounts of care, it will bankrupt the system. ObamaCare requires insurers to cover those people, so all that money has to come from somewhere- the people who are doing it the right way and getting coverage while they are still healthy.

So ObamaCare tries to fix the problem and FORCE people to get coverage, but without even the motivation of needing the coverage in place before they get sick, I don't see how it will fix the problem. I think it will make the problem worse by rewarding the stupid people with coverage when they SHOULD be uninsurable.

I don't care if stupid conservatives or stupid liberals proposed the individual mandate. It's still an affront to personal liberty and doesn't fix the problem.

Who knows? Maybe 99% of people will do it the right way and this will work out great. I am extremely skeptical given human nature and given how government usually runs social programs.

 

[Euchale]

I don´t know how it will turn out in America but here is how it is in Germany (we have mandatory health insurance):
A. There are several different insurances you can get, I will classify them as Private and Governmental
B. Insurances are not allowed to not take someone because of pre-existing conditions, but they are allowed to charge more (roughly 10-15% for most insurances)
C. There is a fond EVERY insurance pays a small amount into, so if one insurance writes red numbers because it has too many costumers with pre-existing conditions, they will get money out of the fond.

If you have a governmental insurance, you get healthcare provided and quite some preventive stuff. If you have private insurance, you will get on top of that usually a higher priority and you can be more "picky", like you can say that you want to be treated by the head doctor instead of one of his subordinates. Also you get a far bigger array of preventive stuff.
Financially the last 2 years were REALLY good for the insurances, to a point where they had to think about giving money back to their costumers.

Maybe Jia can tell us how it is working in the medicare sector.