Video Game Difficulty; When is the Line Crossed?

[Simpwn]

MMOs try and make things accessible to a wider audience because that means more players that will either pay a sub or buy stuff from the cash shop. I hope Wildstar finds the right balance of making a game accessible (especially or specifically in the early levels) but ramps up the difficulty/learning curve as you reach max level. Carbine will want something that will get you invested early and force yourself to learn how to be better at a harder game.

On the other side of things though there are plenty of games that still offer a challenge to play. I am talking about non-MMO games though. My favorite game of this generation (if not all time) is Dark Souls. The game offers such a steep learning curve right off the bat. Each enemy you take down, even the simple ones (not just bosses) give a small feeling of accomplishment. I've put hundreds of hours into the game and still find new challenges to overtake. The game is very punishing, but it makes you learn from that difficulty and in turn get better.

 

[Twistedatoms]

First off I definitely agree with the statements that if you are not failing then you're not trying anything new. How can you feel that sense of accomplishment that Tristan is talking about if you haven't done something new?

the interesting thing is all of the "notable changes" all are travel based. even depositing crafting and collectables. I believe that all 4 of those items mentions Fast travel, deposit material, flying mounts, instance joining all prevent you from having to travel the world and do any kind of encounter. Which to me has destroyed something that I believe makes one immersed in their world. World PvP!!! I truly believe that world PvP makes your game experience that much better. raiding a Battlegrounds entrance that people are waiting at. Having a random encounter on the way to town. How can you ever kill a rival player if you are all teleporting and flying every where? I wholeheartedly agree with ground mounts because they keep you in the world.

Also the achievement system should be something that I actually have to try to do. Not just everyday junk that I always do. I should know when I am going to get an achievement, because I was trying or working to get it. Don't get me wrong I LOVE achievements (whore). But I want to WORK for them. I can't really have any bragging rights when they are so easy for everyone to get.

I hope our upcoming adventure of wildstar will make us all step up our game.

 

[Keleynal]

For achievements, I'm OK with a mix of milestone style achievements like "Loot 500k gold" or "Complete 1000 Quests" along with challenges like "Complete a Raid Without Anyone Dying." The former are just fun to see and give a sense of accomplishment to casual gamers, which is important. The latter are the ones that should include whings like special titles, mounts, or gear skins. In WoW, I saluted anyone with the "Insane" title. Cuz that was just insane.

 

[Simpwn]

As long as there is a good mix of achievements. I like progressive ones (loot 100k gold, loot 250k gold, etc) and ones for killing certain bosses or completing instances. But there also needs to be those that are very difficult to get (WoW's hardcore raiding achievements for instance) that not a lot of people have and are worth getting.

 

[Thief]

Perfect explanation in that video.

Sadly it really is, and it's terrible that what he did is doable. As he said, he wasn't even that low on the damage meters meaning that most players are playing similar to how he was which is not learning or thinking about your play style. I don't care what spec you play, I never played the "cookie-cutter" specs. However, if you're going to switch it up you need to find the strengths in your spec and make it better than the cookie cutter. An example, I used Shadowstep from day 1, before it was useable out of stealth, while it was made fun of constantly, and long before it became popular(if it ever really did...) but that's a post for another day that I'll explain later

In short, if you haven't watched that whole video and you care about topics like this, please go watch that video (few posts above) in its entirety.

 

[tr1age]

Sadly it really is, and it's terrible that what he did is doable. As he said, he wasn't even that low on the damage meters meaning that most players are playing similar to how he was which is not learning or thinking about your play style. I don't care what spec you play, I never played the "cookie-cutter" specs. However, if you're going to switch it up you need to find the strengths in your spec and make it better than the cookie cutter. An example, I used Shadowstep from day 1, before it was useable out of stealth, while it was made fun of constantly, and long before it became popular(if it ever really did...) but that's a post for another day that I'll explain later

In short, if you haven't watched that whole video and you care about topics like this, please go watch that video (few posts above) in its entirety.

Man in UO we worked hard to find the best specs. And the best part is there was a great spec for everyones play style and you never had to be exactly how they were. Everyone could be what they wanted to be. God dammnit all this UO talk makes me wanna go log in again. Blah it never ends well.

 

[Rajax]

For Achievements, not everything should have one. Carbine needs to ensure that they have a right mix of achievements and things you do just because you do. Having too many removes the actual accomplishment of getting that pop up.

 

[Twistedatoms]

I don't care what spec you play, I never played the "cookie-cutter" specs. However, if you're going to switch it up you need to find the strengths in your spec and make it better than the cookie cutter.

I agree. Play a toon how you think or want to play it. make it your own, but if you're going to do that try to do it well.

 

[Herase]

The extra credits and acceptability video are real eye openers, what they say is spot on.

 

[Otakebi]

Well i for one love a good challenge in my games, a hour long boss fight yes please! But the problem is balancing it for people who don't like that kind of thing, now for a MMO especially WildStar i would love the raids to be like they are in a game i played called Age of Wushu raids that last an hour and a half to three hours long! Then they could leave standard dungeons at half an hour long to one hour. I want people to have to learn the game, i want to have to learn the game to be able to do dungeons and especially raids because once you finish that boss you have been trying for the last hour or so it feels like such a achievement. Also you can feel proud and be like i killed so and so the other day. I wished other developers made their games as hard, finishing games in less than 8 hours is pointless.

2 years in the making is it worth only 8 hours gameplay?

 

[dainjre]

2 years in the making is it worth only 8 hours gameplay?

Its very sad. Back in the SWTOR days (lol so long ago), Crake and I's old guild had it down so that we could complete both raids on 8 man hardmode in less than 4 hours. Sad really.

 

[Thief]

To be fair like 90% of Swtor was the leveling story. A story that was mostly great. its just a shame it had Swotor Draped over it like a small pox blanket

Lmao, I was super excited for GW2, enjoyed the leveling but when I hit max level I crafted like the best gear in the game... and then was like well now I'm bored and there is little that I want to do anymore. I'd post more about my dislikes for GW2 but I'll save that for another day and another thread.

 

[Crake]

Its very sad. Back in the SWTOR days (lol so long ago), Crake and I's old guild had it down so that we could complete both raids on 8 man hardmode in less than 4 hours. Sad really.

Haha yeah. Assembly line raiding.

 

[Keleynal]

I remember playing WoW when purples were actually hard to get. Then came the welfare epics and the whole thing just slid from there. I understand why they did LFR, but as the video said, it's gone too far.

As a side not, my friend who still plays WoW told me that they are going to have Progressive Raiding soon. That's where you can run a 25 man with 10 people and the whole thing scales down even further. Sounds like the beginning of the end to me.

 

[Simpwn]

Haha yeah. Assembly line raiding.

There was organized raiding in SWTOR? Who knew.

 

[Herase]

Lol that line 'limp dick version'

I remember playing WoW when purples were actually hard to get. Then came the welfare epics and the whole thing just slid from there. I understand why they did LFR, but as the video said, it's gone too far.

As a side not, my friend who still plays WoW told me that they are going to have Progressive Raiding soon. That's where you can run a 25 man with 10 people and the whole thing scales down even further. Sounds like the beginning of the end to me.

Agree, Wow is the best example for this, the change over the years is crazy. They made all this stuff accessible and people don't even play it, they afk. Yeah only 1% played the content but at least they actually took the time to play it. Now there even thinking of adding Xp boosts and such just to make things a bit more accessible and convenient .

 

[Otakebi]

Lol that line 'limp dick version'



Agree, Wow is the best example for this, the change over the years is crazy. They made all this stuff accessible and people don't even play it, they afk. Yeah only 1% played the content but at least they actually took the time to play it. Now there even thinking of adding Xp boosts and such just to make things a bit more accessible and convenient .

WoW has got to the point, where it is so dumbed down, I am ashamed to say i played it.

 

[TIG]

WoW has got to the point, where it is so dumbed down, I am ashamed to say i played it.

naw, not me. I played for 8+ years and loved every minute of it. Just because its different from the thing you loved, doesn't mean its bad that you loved it when you were in it.

 

[dainjre]

There was organized raiding in SWTOR? Who knew.

It honestly wasn't that hard. The first time we ran the raid a group of pvpers and I ran in in our t2 pvp gear knowing next to nothing about the boss fights and managed to finish the 8 man normal mode with no problems except the last boss who was bugged about 70% of the time at the time.

 

[Simpwn]

It honestly wasn't that hard. The first time we ran the raid a group of pvpers and I ran in in our t2 pvp gear knowing next to nothing about the boss fights and managed to finish the 8 man normal mode with no problems except the last boss who was bugged about 70% of the time at the time.

I think the raid bugs were what killed that game. SWTOR didn't get fixes to the game in a quick enough manner. They were too focused on making the game F2P after its initial release and cash flow.