Am I missing something....
I swear I wrote this:
Which if read after reading the Community Guidelines prior to apping:
Seems to be saying nothing new. If anything it gives everyone a bigger in depth reasoning for the way we are trying to be here.
No where does it say "If you say anything above you will be banned, removed, or kicked", it does however say we ask you to do your best to be above this kind of derogatory approach.
But come on we are not stupid. We knew people were not understanding exactly where it was coming from and just cringing at times and accepting it, so this article included reference to the community to give a better understanding. An attempt at further transparency for those with questions.
I am actually really surprised at the reaction to this article thus far. Not because people have different opinions but because it seems like not everyone agrees that being kinder to one another regardless of "thick skin" or "meaning of words" is in the benefit of everyone else. We are not blocking your opinions here, we are asking you to watch the words that have no actual reason to be in our vernacular when playing a game.
No where in this article is there a hidden agenda for homosexuals, this is as blatant as it can be: "We all PERSONALLY dislike the way these words have become part of our gaming culture as being OK and just as someone put it "exclamations". So we are handling our own shit and wish that those who want to be a part of this community try their best to make a slight adjustment as well.
We aren't taking away anyone's personality, opinions, or ideals.
Take responsibility for yourself. That is how change happens.
Now to address everything that went off topic:
Fen, if there are things that you feel are not right or being misconstrewed, you can bring it up to any of us. We can then have a conversation about it, figure out where we fucked up, and hopefully fix it. We all make mistakes, slip ups, and the like: THAT is what is meant when we say "it is supposed to be a community that we are constantly told is about the people and that the leaders are just "one of us." "
Now to the second part of that sentence:
What do you call this? Is this not an open dialogue? Of course we will have things we discuss on our own, that is what a group of leaders does. But we bring everything we discuss to the table in a format that can be discussed. Doesn't mean we have to follow it, that is also our prerogative. To make the final call. And that works, not everyone wants to be in the entire mix and to be honest if everyone was included in every decision it would not longer be a place for you to just kick back and enjoy. You are all members of a community. Now I will always put this out there for those who wish to have more say in these kinds of things, those who put forth effort to really do what it takes to be a moderator/officer of this site are usually put into a position where that will be the case. We reward that effort. Of course we expect people to step up in lue of officers as well, as we are a mature self sustaining community, but we can tell the difference between a 1 time event and a true leadership ability. Moving on.
In a world based on words, I.E. The Internet the statement "Your actions show your true character, not your use or non-use of random no-no words." is not as solid as it would be otherwise. Because my actions in a gaming community consist of headshots, finishing moves, and magic spells. What does that say about me? Words hold a lot of weight online, people are just coming to the realization that as the internet becomes more ingrained into what we do, the more visible it makes our words, and the more we are going to be held accountable for them.
While I truly feel bad for that situation and how it turned out, when has taking a stand for something right against someone who is a bigot ever been easy? As well, it is our responsibility to decide how far we will fight for someone before we no longer want to fight. It looks like you went past your own comfort level. It is like good vs evil. You follow "rules" and they sucker punch you. Not fair, but ya know what, it is about how you want to feel at the end of the day. You give a VERY extreme circumstance here, one that will not happen at AltTabMe, one that could be more compared to say Malcolm X standing up for his beliefs and then getting killed for it. While I am in NO way saying any of us are that brave or monumental in what is happening here, I am saying that you either are ready for the bullet or you are not. We are not trying to put anyone in a situation where they need to take a bullet. We are just explaining how we will act and what we expect from others, and we take it from there. So ultimately I feel like that example does more to glorify what we are doing then
You got that right. I am tired a lot but I got re-invigorated when I realized I didn't need to be the cynic looking at people's tendency to give up on things too easy or give in to comfort, because ultimately I just needed to adjust myself to effect and attract those around me. So for me idealism is no longer a chore, but a way to enjoy the world around me.
No one is itemizing anything. This article was about a bigger idea than that. It was also an explanation of why we do what we do. People often have questions, so we provide answers.
I think two of my ideas got melded in my response: 1. Pushing it with women by having that thread. 2. Keeping it civil. One is not related to the other. Sorry if they came off as the same thing. We are not pigs here, and there is no reason to act like one, women around or not.
Sigh, because I know this part is going to be taken so far out of context... to be honest is already has been. Gyoin made a poor choice of words in mumble. I was there I believe. This is part of the "we too make mistakes" part. Now, to Gyoin's defense, he also told the entire chat box to stfu when they started going after someone when they signed up and it was shown that they were a girl. He made an off color comment, but as we do with everyone here, we don't judge on one moment in time, we look at them as wholes. This is why we don't just have applications. We have applications pre-req'd with participation on the forums, introductions, and the like. We like a bigger picture, which you, to prove a point, are narrowing the looking glass onto one sentence, which was, if I remember correctly apologized for EVEN after it was said. And if I remember correctly, I also went into him for it, because I was the person who recruited said person, and I didn't even know they liked Podcasting prior to talking to them. It was a bonus and something we were willing to work on with them to get them up to par with what we consider a person ready to be on our podcasts. Sure it is a bonus they are a girl, but actually in reality if a girl isn't on their game 100 times more than guy they get eaten up harder than a guy in a "YouTube" scenario. We have expectations of those who join us in podcasts and put a lot of effort into teaching, helping, and prepping. I swear I even said some of this.
Once again though the point is being missed, it isn't about trying to offend someone, it is about TRYING not to. A much harder feat if you ask me.
It takes more work to be nice than it does to be a jackass throwing all caution to the wind, and hoping the shit doesn't stick and if it does, hoping they have a towel.
Everything I say privately I will say publicly. I suppose that might be part of the problem sometimes haha. Where there are consistency issues, we rely on the community to come to us to tell us, not hold it all in and explode. The reason this article is on the front page is because it is an article we want out there for people to see, not to give it more water. I dunno if you have noticed in your time here, but we post articles about a whole slew of different topics. All Rants show up on the front page as well, so I guess all those topics we disagree with that are on the front page are part of this "show the world who we are" tactic? Come on now...
Yes. Shit sometimes they are a little stricter because we don't want to get into a situation where someone uses their looks or sexuality to game the system. They exist and we have had them.. Shit where is that app.... It is in there somewhere.
We have always had a very equal percentage of women to male applicants and members compared to many communities. Right now not so much as there have been break ups and the like which cause the obvious fall outs.
Now SKILLSETS, we do give some priority over if we are in need of something in the community and we may work with someone more behind the scenes to make sure they understand the community, the process, and the like more. This makes sense. A community sometimes needs specific people for specific tasks.
Last note, posts are never deleted forever, they are hidden. They are only hidden if reported by members. And while we agree this community is strong and can self police itself so to say, there are times where in the sections like "rants" people go personal or people go so off topic it takes away from the OP, so we remove it or move it to a new topic.
That being said, sure we can tone down a bit on it and see how it plays out
Why the hell not. Although remember this is not our first rodeo and what you see is a product of what we have seen as well. That being said, maybe people can step up to the plate, without making others feel like shit.
This was a great suggestion and sadly we are going to lose 4 achievements by removing these but I agree. Please PLEASE PLEASE everyone make suggestions like this before you go way off topic on a different post. We have a feedback section and are always reachable via PMS and can have polls and open it up for discussion on the site as well.
OVERALL I want to say: This topic is soo off topic at this point I am having trouble even following the train of thought. I am 100% happy we posted this though, because some great points have been made, I only wish you all would not wait till it bottles up and tell us sooner, but hey it happens. That being said, we learn everyday as you all do. And we actually do, contrary to being: http://alttabme.com/forum/index.php...t-neo-nazi-oppressive-forum-of-fuck-you.3185/ we actually care a whole lot and listen.
"Lead by example", I get it. I do it all the time at work, in life, in general. But I also know how much you have to distance yourself from the ones you wish you could shoot the shit with in situations like that in RL. Here we are trying something different. It may or may not work, it is still to be seen completely, but in the past it has worked out great. Obviously there are a lot of new people now. However we will not be Leading in a sense that limits us from being ourselves, regardless of the outcome for the time being, because THEN we have to treat this place as a job rather than a place to have fun. I think ultimately everyone who is in a leadership position here would prefer to have a place where FUN was priority for EVERYONE including the leaders then have to distance one another to have that "Impact" or "manipulation" factor associated with borders and distances. I don't want to have to be the "Silent only talks when it is important, so fear my words" leader. Gyoin doesn't want to be the "can't fuck around so when he does fuck around you all get thrown off guard" leader. We are not directing you or herding you to a role or a specific way of acting, so there is no reason for that level of separation when it comes to interactions. When it comes to ultimate decisions it will be there to an extent, but when it comes to us playing along side our buddies we REFUSE to succumb to it. And that will take work FROM EVERYONE.
I swear I wrote this:
Which if read after reading the Community Guidelines prior to apping:
Seems to be saying nothing new. If anything it gives everyone a bigger in depth reasoning for the way we are trying to be here.
No where does it say "If you say anything above you will be banned, removed, or kicked", it does however say we ask you to do your best to be above this kind of derogatory approach.
But come on we are not stupid. We knew people were not understanding exactly where it was coming from and just cringing at times and accepting it, so this article included reference to the community to give a better understanding. An attempt at further transparency for those with questions.
I am actually really surprised at the reaction to this article thus far. Not because people have different opinions but because it seems like not everyone agrees that being kinder to one another regardless of "thick skin" or "meaning of words" is in the benefit of everyone else. We are not blocking your opinions here, we are asking you to watch the words that have no actual reason to be in our vernacular when playing a game.
No where in this article is there a hidden agenda for homosexuals, this is as blatant as it can be: "We all PERSONALLY dislike the way these words have become part of our gaming culture as being OK and just as someone put it "exclamations". So we are handling our own shit and wish that those who want to be a part of this community try their best to make a slight adjustment as well.
We aren't taking away anyone's personality, opinions, or ideals.
Take responsibility for yourself. That is how change happens.
Now to address everything that went off topic:
Fen, if there are things that you feel are not right or being misconstrewed, you can bring it up to any of us. We can then have a conversation about it, figure out where we fucked up, and hopefully fix it. We all make mistakes, slip ups, and the like: THAT is what is meant when we say "it is supposed to be a community that we are constantly told is about the people and that the leaders are just "one of us." "
Now to the second part of that sentence:
What do you call this? Is this not an open dialogue? Of course we will have things we discuss on our own, that is what a group of leaders does. But we bring everything we discuss to the table in a format that can be discussed. Doesn't mean we have to follow it, that is also our prerogative. To make the final call. And that works, not everyone wants to be in the entire mix and to be honest if everyone was included in every decision it would not longer be a place for you to just kick back and enjoy. You are all members of a community. Now I will always put this out there for those who wish to have more say in these kinds of things, those who put forth effort to really do what it takes to be a moderator/officer of this site are usually put into a position where that will be the case. We reward that effort. Of course we expect people to step up in lue of officers as well, as we are a mature self sustaining community, but we can tell the difference between a 1 time event and a true leadership ability. Moving on.
In a world based on words, I.E. The Internet the statement "Your actions show your true character, not your use or non-use of random no-no words." is not as solid as it would be otherwise. Because my actions in a gaming community consist of headshots, finishing moves, and magic spells. What does that say about me? Words hold a lot of weight online, people are just coming to the realization that as the internet becomes more ingrained into what we do, the more visible it makes our words, and the more we are going to be held accountable for them.
While I truly feel bad for that situation and how it turned out, when has taking a stand for something right against someone who is a bigot ever been easy? As well, it is our responsibility to decide how far we will fight for someone before we no longer want to fight. It looks like you went past your own comfort level. It is like good vs evil. You follow "rules" and they sucker punch you. Not fair, but ya know what, it is about how you want to feel at the end of the day. You give a VERY extreme circumstance here, one that will not happen at AltTabMe, one that could be more compared to say Malcolm X standing up for his beliefs and then getting killed for it. While I am in NO way saying any of us are that brave or monumental in what is happening here, I am saying that you either are ready for the bullet or you are not. We are not trying to put anyone in a situation where they need to take a bullet. We are just explaining how we will act and what we expect from others, and we take it from there. So ultimately I feel like that example does more to glorify what we are doing then
You got that right. I am tired a lot but I got re-invigorated when I realized I didn't need to be the cynic looking at people's tendency to give up on things too easy or give in to comfort, because ultimately I just needed to adjust myself to effect and attract those around me. So for me idealism is no longer a chore, but a way to enjoy the world around me.
No one is itemizing anything. This article was about a bigger idea than that. It was also an explanation of why we do what we do. People often have questions, so we provide answers.
I think two of my ideas got melded in my response: 1. Pushing it with women by having that thread. 2. Keeping it civil. One is not related to the other. Sorry if they came off as the same thing. We are not pigs here, and there is no reason to act like one, women around or not.
Sigh, because I know this part is going to be taken so far out of context... to be honest is already has been. Gyoin made a poor choice of words in mumble. I was there I believe. This is part of the "we too make mistakes" part. Now, to Gyoin's defense, he also told the entire chat box to stfu when they started going after someone when they signed up and it was shown that they were a girl. He made an off color comment, but as we do with everyone here, we don't judge on one moment in time, we look at them as wholes. This is why we don't just have applications. We have applications pre-req'd with participation on the forums, introductions, and the like. We like a bigger picture, which you, to prove a point, are narrowing the looking glass onto one sentence, which was, if I remember correctly apologized for EVEN after it was said. And if I remember correctly, I also went into him for it, because I was the person who recruited said person, and I didn't even know they liked Podcasting prior to talking to them. It was a bonus and something we were willing to work on with them to get them up to par with what we consider a person ready to be on our podcasts. Sure it is a bonus they are a girl, but actually in reality if a girl isn't on their game 100 times more than guy they get eaten up harder than a guy in a "YouTube" scenario. We have expectations of those who join us in podcasts and put a lot of effort into teaching, helping, and prepping. I swear I even said some of this.
Once again though the point is being missed, it isn't about trying to offend someone, it is about TRYING not to. A much harder feat if you ask me.
It takes more work to be nice than it does to be a jackass throwing all caution to the wind, and hoping the shit doesn't stick and if it does, hoping they have a towel.
Everything I say privately I will say publicly. I suppose that might be part of the problem sometimes haha. Where there are consistency issues, we rely on the community to come to us to tell us, not hold it all in and explode. The reason this article is on the front page is because it is an article we want out there for people to see, not to give it more water. I dunno if you have noticed in your time here, but we post articles about a whole slew of different topics. All Rants show up on the front page as well, so I guess all those topics we disagree with that are on the front page are part of this "show the world who we are" tactic? Come on now...
Yes. Shit sometimes they are a little stricter because we don't want to get into a situation where someone uses their looks or sexuality to game the system. They exist and we have had them.. Shit where is that app.... It is in there somewhere.
We have always had a very equal percentage of women to male applicants and members compared to many communities. Right now not so much as there have been break ups and the like which cause the obvious fall outs.
Now SKILLSETS, we do give some priority over if we are in need of something in the community and we may work with someone more behind the scenes to make sure they understand the community, the process, and the like more. This makes sense. A community sometimes needs specific people for specific tasks.
Last note, posts are never deleted forever, they are hidden. They are only hidden if reported by members. And while we agree this community is strong and can self police itself so to say, there are times where in the sections like "rants" people go personal or people go so off topic it takes away from the OP, so we remove it or move it to a new topic.
That being said, sure we can tone down a bit on it and see how it plays out
Why the hell not. Although remember this is not our first rodeo and what you see is a product of what we have seen as well. That being said, maybe people can step up to the plate, without making others feel like shit.This was a great suggestion and sadly we are going to lose 4 achievements by removing these but I agree. Please PLEASE PLEASE everyone make suggestions like this before you go way off topic on a different post. We have a feedback section and are always reachable via PMS and can have polls and open it up for discussion on the site as well.
OVERALL I want to say: This topic is soo off topic at this point I am having trouble even following the train of thought. I am 100% happy we posted this though, because some great points have been made, I only wish you all would not wait till it bottles up and tell us sooner, but hey it happens. That being said, we learn everyday as you all do. And we actually do, contrary to being: http://alttabme.com/forum/index.php...t-neo-nazi-oppressive-forum-of-fuck-you.3185/ we actually care a whole lot and listen.
"Lead by example", I get it. I do it all the time at work, in life, in general. But I also know how much you have to distance yourself from the ones you wish you could shoot the shit with in situations like that in RL. Here we are trying something different. It may or may not work, it is still to be seen completely, but in the past it has worked out great. Obviously there are a lot of new people now. However we will not be Leading in a sense that limits us from being ourselves, regardless of the outcome for the time being, because THEN we have to treat this place as a job rather than a place to have fun. I think ultimately everyone who is in a leadership position here would prefer to have a place where FUN was priority for EVERYONE including the leaders then have to distance one another to have that "Impact" or "manipulation" factor associated with borders and distances. I don't want to have to be the "Silent only talks when it is important, so fear my words" leader. Gyoin doesn't want to be the "can't fuck around so when he does fuck around you all get thrown off guard" leader. We are not directing you or herding you to a role or a specific way of acting, so there is no reason for that level of separation when it comes to interactions. When it comes to ultimate decisions it will be there to an extent, but when it comes to us playing along side our buddies we REFUSE to succumb to it. And that will take work FROM EVERYONE.
